Not from a Battlesite, but via Special, Event or Inherent Ability.
If you play a Skeletal Summoning / Gift from the Gods (Choose one Ghost Rider Special from Draw Pile and place in hand. Cannot be a duplicate. Reshuffle Draw Pile.), I assume this means "Go get a special with that character's name printed on the side"-- not "A card playable by Ghost Rider".
So let's say Ghost Rider and Beyonder are on the same team, somehow, with Jubilee and Morph. Beyonder plays a Skeletal Summoning. Can he get:
1) A Ghost Rider special only?
2) A Beyonder special only (ie: none)
3) Any special playable by Beyonder?
A Special with "Beyonder" on the side.
Further.. Crystal and Beta Ray Bill will not be able to use their respective DS specials to get Inhumans/Thor specials via the same argument.
Though, the tournament guide says it's any Special card usable by the character.. though I'm going to guess they were being a bit sloppy.
Quote from: Jack on February 17, 2013, 12:44:39 PM
A Special with "Beyonder" on the side.
Further.. Crystal and Beta Ray Bill will not be able to use their respective DS specials to get Inhumans/Thor specials via the same argument.
Though, the tournament guide says it's any Special card usable by the character.. though I'm going to guess they were being a bit sloppy.
Sucks for Crystal, Beta Ray Bill, or Team X while using The Avengers Mansion as a homebase, but I can't complain. It makes sense given how the rules work.
Thanks.
you mean to say that beta ray bill cant play gift of the gods normally if a player is using say the any specials?
even so it http://overpower.ca/cards/characters/26.png says bill can
This is weird. If they're able to play the card for whatever reason, they should be able to pull any card they can use.
This cant really be abused, beyonder can't play opd car so he may never pull an opd.
Beta ray bill can't use gift from the gods?! Really?!
Quote from: BasiliskFang on February 18, 2013, 03:17:37 AM
This is weird. If they're able to play the card for whatever reason, they should be able to pull any card they can use.
This cant really be abused
With your interpretation, Beta Ray Bill can pull a Devourer with a DS special because he can use it.
We've always treated DS Specials like this:
If you're playing the DS because of an Inherent Ability, you draw a Special with the printed name (If Beyonder plays Gift of the Gods, he chooses any Thor (and only Thor) Specials)
If you're playing the DS because of a Battlesite or Event, then you replace the original name with the name of the new Character playing it, and retrieve their personal Specials.
It always seemed pretty clear and intuitive. We never had any issues this way, but maybe that's because we never tried to abuse it...?
Quote from: ncannelora on February 18, 2013, 10:12:40 AM
We've always treated DS Specials like this:
If you're playing the DS because of an Inherent Ability, you draw a Special with the printed name (If Beyonder plays Gift of the Gods, he chooses any Thor (and only Thor) Specials)
If you're playing the DS because of a Battlesite or Event, then you replace the original name with the name of the new Character playing it, and retrieve their personal Specials.
It always seemed pretty clear and intuitive. We never had any issues this way, but maybe that's because we never tried to abuse it...?
It's almost intuitive, but gets so muddled as soon as you try to apply it.
Let's say I play a DS through a Battlesite onto Team X. By your interpretation, Team X can only get a "Team X" special.
Okay, what if I play Living Costume onto Team X, and THEN they play the DS through a site. Team X only? Spawn only? Team X or Spawn? Maverick, Wolverine, or Sabertooth or Spawn?
Heck, let's say I play (though a mysterious battlesite) Living Costume though a Battlesite through Wolverine. I play it onto Team X. Then through the site, I play a DS through Team X. Can I get a Wolverine OPD?
Or I have Ghost Rider on the front line. I play Living Costume from battlesite via Ghost Rider onto Team X. Team X then plays the DS special. What can they get?
Even Beyonder breaks down. If Beyonder plays a teammate's DS, he can get any special-- but if he plays a DS via a site, he can only get a "Beyonder" special.
What happens when "Fighting Spirit Lives On" (all specials in hand can be played by everyone) comes into play?
Quote from: halcyon1234 on February 18, 2013, 01:50:28 PM
Quote from: ncannelora on February 18, 2013, 10:12:40 AM
We've always treated DS Specials like this:
If you're playing the DS because of an Inherent Ability, you draw a Special with the printed name (If Beyonder plays Gift of the Gods, he chooses any Thor (and only Thor) Specials)
If you're playing the DS because of a Battlesite or Event, then you replace the original name with the name of the new Character playing it, and retrieve their personal Specials.
It always seemed pretty clear and intuitive. We never had any issues this way, but maybe that's because we never tried to abuse it...?
It's almost intuitive, but gets so muddled as soon as you try to apply it.
[/quote]
It might get muddled as soon as
you try to apply it. We applied it all the time without muddling anything.
as for the rest of your "what-if" scenarios:
Quote from: halcyon1234 on February 18, 2013, 01:50:28 PMLet's say I play a DS through a Battlesite onto Team X. By your interpretation, Team X can only get a "Team X" special.
Team X can get any "Team X" Special, in addition to any Special playable by their I.A.
Quote from: halcyon1234 on February 18, 2013, 01:50:28 PMOkay, what if I play Living Costume onto Team X, and THEN they play the DS through a site. Team X only? Spawn only? Team X or Spawn? Maverick, Wolverine, or Sabertooth or Spawn?
The last option, + Team X Specials.
Quote from: halcyon1234 on February 18, 2013, 01:50:28 PMHeck, let's say I play (though a mysterious battlesite) Living Costume though a Battlesite through Wolverine. I play it onto Team X. Then through the site, I play a DS through Team X. Can I get a Wolverine OPD?
yes. etc. etc. ...
Quote from: halcyon1234 on February 18, 2013, 01:50:28 PMWhat happens when "Fighting Spirit Lives On" (all specials in hand can be played by everyone) comes into play?
The Event would be treated just like playing from an Activator.
Quote from: Jack on February 18, 2013, 04:53:47 AM
Quote from: BasiliskFang on February 18, 2013, 03:17:37 AM
This is weird. If they're able to play the card for whatever reason, they should be able to pull any card they can use.
This cant really be abused
With your interpretation, Beta Ray Bill can pull a Devourer with a DS special because he can use it.
Beta can pull DoW!!!! Remaking my deck right now! :o
Quote from: Jack on February 18, 2013, 04:53:47 AM
Quote from: BasiliskFang on February 18, 2013, 03:17:37 AM
This is weird. If they're able to play the card for whatever reason, they should be able to pull any card they can use.
This cant really be abused
With your interpretation, Beta Ray Bill can pull a Devourer with a DS special because he can use it.
Just meta it. No any hero cards pulled via ds.
Think about it. Crystal can activate inhumans specials. Storm:n, morlocks. Why cant they pull those same cards with a ds. No one can activate an any hero card. What if it was your opd? Like leech or Dow?
The guide to playing special prohibits drawing for an Any Hero/Character Special card.
What you're not seeing is that if you don't transplant the name on Special cards for Clones, then it gets confusing on how one would play, say:
(http://overpower.ca/cards/specials/1395.png)
So, if Beta Ray Bill were to play this, Thor would have his Energy at 8?
With the way the card is worded, and how transplanting works for Activators/Clone/etc., what I described above is the "proper" way for the card to be played.
if its implicit in which specials he can play then it should be beta ray bill or thor.
storm or morlocks
team x or wolv or sabre or maverick.
it should be or.
if beyonder plays a DS it should be any of his teammate's non-opd specials.
Quote from: BasiliskFang on February 18, 2013, 07:00:17 PM
if its implicit in which specials he can play then it should be beta ray bill or thor.
storm or morlocks
team x or wolv or sabre or maverick.
it should be or.
if beyonder plays a DS it should be any of his teammate's non-opd specials.
i agree with ya
"It always seemed pretty clear and intuitive. We never had any issues this way, but maybe that's because we never tried to abuse it...?" -Ncannelora
This is PRECISELY how every card should be looked at. From the stance that it isn't being abused.
My lack of infinite wisdom tells me that you should always look at the inherent abilities and filter the effects of cards through them. Inherent abilities always break game rules.
If the character is playing a DS special via inherent ability, as long as the special is playable by the character, you should be allowed to choose it. Beta Ray Bill can play Thor specials, so Thor specials in your deck should be considered Thor/Beta Ray Bill specials for this purpose. The inherent ability supersedes (at least it should) the wording on the special. You go:
DS to Beta Ray Bill, inherent ability says Bill can play Thor specials, search for Bill or Thor special because he can play it and put it in your hand.
OR:
DS to Beyonder, inherent ability says any non OPD special, search for Beyonder or any non OPD special, and put it in hand.
This way, the inherent ability overrides the special, which has been discussed in a different thread, and its cool that a case of this has come up. I think everyone knows how it should work. I don't believe anyone would say that you should be able to DS for an anycharacter special. I've never even considered it. Anyhow, it stands to reason that if you can activate a Morlocks special with a Storm:Neutralized character card since she can play Morlocks specials, then you should be able to search for a Thor special for Beta Ray Bill due to his inherent ability granting permission for him to play Thor specials. This rule only seems to get confusing when you bring up anycharacters, and you can't BQ anycharacters, so you probably shouldn't DS for them either. I would also like to add that it makes sense to DS from a battlesite to Original XMen and search for a Prof X OPD special. They can play it, so it's essentially theirs, just as Bill and Crystal (not Billy Crystal :P).
This should be added to BBH's rules revisions in his new rule book to keep this from coming up. I love his rules more and more everyday. BUT... I love OverPower and will continue to try to understand it's complications. I don't quite get my girlfriend... but I love her anyway. :-*
my girlfriend is learning overpower.
she is a magic player...vastly different.
Quote from: Jack on February 18, 2013, 04:06:32 PM
What you're not seeing is that if you don't transplant the name on Special cards for Clones, then it gets confusing on how one would play, say:
(http://overpower.ca/cards/specials/1395.png)
So, if Beta Ray Bill were to play this, Thor would have his Energy at 8?
I thought the rules only transplanted the name in the special's effect text, not on the side of the card. That's what the hangup with the DS specials are. They don't say "A special playable by X", they say "an X special".
It's be like if Jack had his computer locked with his thumbprint, but then programmed it to allow me to unlock his computer with my thumbprint as if it were Jack's. I can use Jack's computer, but you could not say that I had Jack's thumbprint.
And then Green Goblin comes around and muddles things more. He explicitly turns his specials into Any Hero specials, removing his name and putting Any Hero in its place. So, if I play Goblin Legacy, turn his specials into Any Hero, then play a Battlesite DS through him-- can I get a
Green Goblin Any Hero "Pumpkin Bomb"?
AaaaQ!
you may not draw gg specs after g legacy unless you are gg.
Quote from: BasiliskFang on February 21, 2013, 05:36:25 PM
you may not draw gg specs after g legacy unless you are gg.
this makes total sense - you cannot because they are no longer Green Goblin Specials, but Any Hero Specials, which should never be retrieved with a DS.
The language of this game needs a big update...
The more I read this thread, the more I became confused. Can I get a final summary on the ruling, please?
Quote from: mattkoz on February 22, 2013, 08:40:50 AM
The more I read this thread, the more I became confused. Can I get a final summary on the ruling, please?
play to play not abuse!
I hope my last post made sense... but I'm still confused on the official ruling.
Quote from: thetrooper27 on February 24, 2013, 01:47:52 AM
I hope my last post made sense... but I'm still confused on the official ruling.
here's what I've learned about OP and TPTB... there are lots and lots of tricky scenarios that don't really have any "official ruling," because a lot of those "official rulings" we're either undocumented (or poorly), or the scenario was only encountered off the record or posthumously.
so, we're left interpreting these "laws" that are leftover.
my "official" suggestion? when you're going to an event, designate 1 or 3 guys (no more, and keep it odd) to act as judges
for that event an let them have ruling abilities. agree to it ahead of time, choose trustworthy people, and hope everyone can be good sports to enjoy this game for what it is :)
If I play spawns living costume, via bs (spawns alley)
I'm using beast brute, dark beast, reavers - pierce res.
Reavers plays living costume upon brute. Brute can play reavers specials frog?
correct.
he can now play every special in the deck!
a very dangerous brute
but brute can't place them?
difference between MF and HI.
(http://overpower.ca/cards/specials/1278.png)
and
(http://overpower.ca/cards/specials/564.png) (This is the only OPD HI out of 4)
A's MF allows B to play A's specials.
A's HI allows A to play B's specials.
I've always wanted to argue that "play" and "place and play" were two different things. It completely changes how Clones (and Beyonder) are used.
so is the ruling that "play" and "place and play" are different?
i started using spawn and i used his mf on dr.strange, can his teammate place spawn specs?
I'm not sure how to really interpret it, the games are always played assuming that "play" and "place and play" are synonymous. Otherwise Beyonder couldn't place any cards (though adding Hawkeye's HH would allow him to...).
I dont believe there has ever been a problem with this. If Beta Ray Bill can use Thor cards those cards in essense become beta ray bill cards not Thor. A little common sense is needed with alot of these cards.
it's funny how complicated the game actually is...especially for new people...I tried to teach my wife how to play after we started playing the DC deck building game and it proved difficult...lol. I'm still happy that I tried to teach her though, since I had forgotten a couple of the rules and had to google overpower...then I found that there are still people playing :D