I suspect the answer, but I thought I should ask for some feedback, just to be sure.
If some one plays Devourer Of Worlds on my battlesite, and that battlesite has a KL special on it, (say from C.Britain on MUIR ISLAND), I'm prevented from using that KL to remove DoW, right?
Yes. You also can't play the KL to defend against DoW. You can negate it when it is first being played on your defensive action.
Quote from: Jack on March 07, 2011, 03:28:52 PM
You can negate it when it is first being played on your defensive action.
Really? Despite the card text?
QuotePlay during battle. Opponent cannot use Activator cards for remainder of game or until this Special has been attacked with 4 Activator card attacks. This Special may not be negated.
Additionally, what constitutes "attacking" the special with Activator cards? Do the specials have to be attacks, or is this basically saying you have to reveal and waste 4 Activator cards (of any kind) before you can start using them again?
Quote from: Dog on March 07, 2011, 03:43:49 PM
Quote from: Jack on March 07, 2011, 03:28:52 PM
You can negate it when it is first being played on your defensive action.
Really? Despite the card text?
QuotePlay during battle. Opponent cannot use Activator cards for remainder of game or until this Special has been attacked with 4 Activator card attacks. This Special may not be negated.
Additionally, what constitutes "attacking" the special with Activator cards? Do the specials have to be attacks, or is this basically saying you have to reveal and waste 4 Activator cards (of any kind) before you can start using them again?
Jack was referring to the KL special. You can't play it defensively to stop DoW, and the player playing DoW can negate it to prevent it you from wiping out Dow.
And yes, you actually attack DoW with activator cards. One at a time. Once you've hit it 4 times, then DoW is gone.
-BBH
[notsure]That is the only time you can negate it. The special is still being played and hasn't officially gone into affect yet. The "This Special may not be negated." hasn't come into play yet.[/notsure]
KLs can't be used defensively to remove DoW, but can be used afterwards. KLs cannot be from battlesite since DoW prevents you from exchanging for any.
BBH - I thought we could negate DoW on the defensive action...
Attacking the special means playing 4 Activator cards onto it. You do not exchange them with the specials from the battlesite. You play the Hero cards directly onto DoW. Those cannot be defended by the opponent anyway because they are not specials, they are activators.
Quote from: Jack on March 07, 2011, 03:53:14 PM
That is the only time you can negate it. The special is still being played and hasn't officially gone into affect yet. The "This Special may not be negated." hasn't come into play yet.
Do Not Agree.
Quote from: drdeath25 on March 07, 2011, 04:05:10 PM
Quote from: Jack on March 07, 2011, 03:53:14 PM
That is the only time you can negate it. The special is still being played and hasn't officially gone into affect yet. The "This Special may not be negated." hasn't come into play yet.
Do Not Agree.
Agree with Dr. Death's disagreement. :P
DoW may not be negated. Period. Once the card has been played, the stipulation becomes active.
It's the same with JW specials, which cannot be defended with specials. One can't argue that they CAN be defended with specials because the card hasn't landed therefore the stipulation doesn't apply.
Bearing in mind, of course, there are some cards with conditional modifiers - 'If successful....' those effects don't come into play unless successful (or unsuccessful in some cases). DoW doesn't say - "If successful this card may not be negated." It simply says "This card may not be negated."
And yes, a KL from the battlesite is useless against DoW because you must exchange the activator for it, but you're prevented from playing activators by DoW.
-BBH
Negating DoW before it activates is an interesting view point I've never heard. I can see how that would work after playing Yugioh for years with that kind of logic. Though, it's a slippery slope of timing and chains once you go down it.
If this was Yugioh and DoW was a speed 1 with a negate being a speed 2, then it would work, because the negate goes before the DoW, due to chains rolling back from the last card played on the chain.
BBH is right here though about the "if successful," if the card had that, then it would be negatable.
Ah nuts, there goes my argument. I hate all DoW decks.
Quote from: Jack on March 07, 2011, 04:49:54 PM
Ah nuts, there goes my argument. I hate all DoW decks.
It certainly does provide a good argument for GL and KL cards... doesn't it? ;)
-BBH
Okay, so to be clear:
1. KL cards cannot be played from a Battlesite to defeat DoW (as I suspected, and against my hopes)
2. DoW cannot be negated (as I suspected, and against my hopes)
Correct?
(I'll refrain from asking "right?" because it is not "right", even if it is "correct") :-\
correct.
so KLs can take out DoW? i assumed that it only affected cards that implicitly stated 'remainder of battle or remainder of game'...otherwise, why did they go to the trouble of including the quotation marks?
can y'all remind me what GL cards do? (and a couple characters that have em)
DoW says,
"Play during battle. Opponent cannot use Activator cards for remainder
of game or until this Special has been attacked with 4 Activator
card attacks. This Special may not be negated."
So, yeah, KL removes it.
GL cards let your sort through opponent's Draw Pile and remove a card. Doomsday, Huntress, Post and Reavers are the only characters with it.
oh yeah...duh :(
Quote from: BigBadHarve on March 07, 2011, 03:48:03 PM
And yes, you actually attack DoW with activator cards. One at a time. Once you've hit it 4 times, then DoW is gone.
-BBH
So when you attack DoW with an activator card, that uses up your turn? You are forced to "waste" 4 turns total to get rid of DoW, correct?
Quote from: Nate Grey on April 16, 2011, 02:52:42 AM
Quote from: BigBadHarve on March 07, 2011, 03:48:03 PM
And yes, you actually attack DoW with activator cards. One at a time. Once you've hit it 4 times, then DoW is gone.
-BBH
So when you attack DoW with an activator card, that uses up your turn? You are forced to "waste" 4 turns total to get rid of DoW, correct?
yup. it's a total bummer of a card, in the sense that it's such a singular tide-turner, with no actual way to
defend the action (only counters are offense actions, which is the root of my contention).
You might also be able to mill DoW with a BW special. Just use your Super Skrull, Brood, Iron Man, Metallo deck. That's 20 cards right there.
This deck has always lost via venture for me... It needs a late game universal alignment to have a chance.
Yeah, the milling never faired well in our circles, no matter who was attempting it. I did like that OP tried to include cards like that, but being that there's no real "cost" for playing those cards, the limit of 4 througout the game makes a lot of sense, especially since they gave the to characters who really don't have any real synergy.
I was just re-reading this thread cause I wasn't sure if you could, defensively pull a KL out from under the battlesite to defend the DoW, but it looks like that would be a horrible place to keep your only KL in case you DO run into DoW. That card is just devistating to a battlesite. Leech is pretty devistating too, especially if you leech AFTER you DoW... granted an AG/AO/DO/EE(Inhumans), ect, ect... can still take care of Leech.
Quote from: Demacus on October 07, 2011, 05:57:01 PM
... granted an AG/AO/DO/EE(Inhumans), ect, ect... can still take care of Leech.
which is why I've never had a problem with Power Leech, but DoW still bugs me. It'd be
totally different if it targeted the Battlesite (meaning the defensive Specials from under the Battlesite could still defend against it).
I was going through my collection the other day and noticed WAAAAAAAY in the back of the 3rd binder that I have a second copy of each of the Wildstorm vs Marvel Foil inserts and another DoW. Wish I'd knew how awesome that card was back in the day.
niiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiice
Quote from: Demacus on October 11, 2011, 03:57:14 PM
I was going through my collection the other day and noticed WAAAAAAAY in the back of the 3rd binder that I have a second copy of each of the Wildstorm vs Marvel Foil inserts and another DoW. Wish I'd knew how awesome that card was back in the day.
you snooze
you lose :)
i can haz ur DoW?
So, I was playing the other day and using C.Britain in a strength deck, with a Battlesite. I was able to use his KL to remove DoW and I'll admit that it did feel good to get rid of the card that way.
I still hate DoW, though.
Quote from: ncannelora on November 01, 2011, 12:00:07 PM
So, I was playing the other day and using C.Britain in a strength deck, with a Battlesite. I was able to use his KL to remove DoW and I'll admit that it did feel good to get rid of the card that way.
I still hate DoW, though.
Niiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiicccccccccccccccccccccccccceeeeeeeeeeeeeee
Quote from: a_noble_kaz on October 15, 2011, 05:53:57 PM
i can haz ur DoW?
I would perhaps be interested in a trade, as having only 1 is completly fine for me, since I don't have any actual decks built outside of my computer atm.
Does anyone know why Power Leech targets a character, but Devourer of Worlds doesn't? In the old days, we played DoW like Power Leech because we didn't know any better, and we figured it was so powerful that it had to be the same scenario.