If events didn't exist, I think the best deck in the game would be the dual 8 energy team. For reference:
Spawn, X-Man, Scarlet Witch, Spider-Woman, Team Overpower, Shattered Image, Any Heroes
(http://i.imgur.com/vnfax.png)
Top tier decks can be so cruel. This blonde kid just wanted to use a Danger Room homebase deck...This deck has a lot of things going for it. Like most top tier decks in other games, each small benefit has synergy with another element of the deck - allowing for an overall strategy that most other decks can't emulate. Some of its strengths:
- 1) It has two 8 stat characters.
- 2) It has a character that can play specials from reserve
- 3) It has an EE special
- 4) It uses Any Heroes
- 5) It has a negate
These all seem really basic at first glance. In fact, most decks probably have 3 out of 5 of these elements right off the bat. But all 5 in the same deck? That creates a perfect storm of interaction that really takes this deck to another level. The two 8 stat characters ensure that you will win in the powerpack against decks with only a single 8 stat character. Having a character that can play specials from reserve allows for lower duping. Any Heroes also allow for lower duping (no chance of duping activators, immune to DoW). The EE is the only thing allowing you to run Any Heroes, since it can stop level 10 teamwork followups from toppling your defensive net and causing a snowball effect of discards. The low duping/discards ensure that you can kick around in venture long enough to take advantage of your powerpack supremacy.
All that being said, this is most definitely not the best deck in the game. Why is that? It's way too heavily invested in energy, which is the most commonly teched against icon. It really hates to see the KO event or Shockwave rocks the world. So the upcoming deck is an attempt to find if the above 5 bullet points could be used as a template for a non-energy based deck. On paper it would of course be slightly inferior to the energy lineup, but you'd have the added benefit of a) running anti-energy to win against the "superior" version, and MUCH more importantly, b) you would be immune to the anti-energy cards played against you that would otherwise cripple the X-Man/Spawn version.
So from the template above, it would be best to start with the most scarce thing and then move on from there. In order from most widely available to least: Any Heroes, 8 stats, Negates, useful specials from reserve, EE.
The EE characters:
- X-Man
- Reyes
- Sentinels
- Bastion
So part of what lets the energy deck cram all 5 of the guidelines in is the fact that their EE character is also an 8. I first started by trying to get away with using Reyes as a junior 8 stat character. It would make you less potent in the powerpack, though still overall similar to the energy build. Reyes and Donald Pierce are the obvious starting points, leaving us two character slots to come up with another 8 stat and someone who can play specials from reserve. The emperor of the 8 intellect stat is of course Mr. Fantastic, and this deck badly needs some more defense in the form of Spider Woman.
Reyes, Mr. Fantastic, Donald Pierce, Spider-Woman, Any Heroes, Fatal Attractions
This deck is crummy. It doesn't have enough special cards to keep your powercard count down, so you lose the ultra low duping benefit. This lineup won't do in the search for Secretly the Best Deck in the Game, but it would actually be pretty formidable with a proper battlesite (Hell's Kitchen looks nice with this) and a different mission set (maybe Infinity Gauntlet).
(http://i.imgur.com/EeQ56.png)
So as long as we're still poking around the options provided to us by intellect characters, you might think it's time to investigate Bastion. However, a problem arises. EE Char, Negate char (no eights with a negate), 8 stat char, 8 stat char, and someone who plays specials from reserve. That's five roles to fill with four slots, and our EE character isn't an 8 stat. Uh oh, there are no 8 intellect characters who can play a special from reserve, so the same problem as before could arise where you don't have enough special cards to keep your powercard duping low. If only there was an eight stat character who could play specials from reserve...(FORESHADOWING!)
Sentinels, Zealot, Serpent Society, 3-stat Sabretooth, Any Heroes, Fatal Attractions
Now we're cooking. Sabretooth fills a dual role of "play specials from reserve" and "backup 8 stat," just like X-Man filled two roles for the energy deck. Sentinels have some acceptable offense to go with the EEs, and Serpent Society and Zealot are the BFF Fatal Attractions tandem due to their complete lack of energy icons. It is lucky that 3 stat Sabretooth works out to be 18, so this deck comes in right on the nose.
(http://i.imgur.com/exUW7.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/CJ8K2.gif)
Good post. Finally a deck thread about competitive decks!
Yes thank you so much Onslaught, without your insight and benevolent kindness and knowledge we would all be lost in the wilderness. ::)
Fun stuff. Thanks for that.
Quote from: rucker73 on March 15, 2011, 09:28:39 PM
Yes thank you so much Onslaught, without your insight and benevolent kindness and knowledge we would all be lost in the wilderness. ::)
What the **** does this even mean? Get over your persecution complex. I posted a new deck, and somehow it offends you? Reevaluate your life.
Watch the language friend.
and the not so subtle "meaning" is me poking fun at Dr.D always fawning over your posts.
Not meaning to offend. Also your new deck and deck constructing ideas, seem to fit very nicely with what was discussed in another thread. About how all of your decks are built using the exact same criteria and generally with the same 20-30 characters.
A thread in which you berated anyone and everyone who disagreed with you.
So I guess an alternate "meaning" to my post could be me just agreeing with you so as to avoid upsetting you but judging by the F-Bomb you dropped I guess I must have upset you in some other manner.
Sorry if you took it that way.
Just try and keep an open mind. ;)
Hm yes commonly used cheese characters Sentinels and Sabretooth, always showing up so frequently jeeze...
Quote from: rucker73 on March 15, 2011, 09:28:39 PM
Yes thank you so much Onslaught, without your insight and benevolent kindness and knowledge we would all be lost in the wilderness. ::)
Wow wasn't there a thread about civility posted? Mods?
I understand you don't like the guy, but as a new player browsing the forums trying to learn rulings and tips, it is very hard to digest your ill comments.
And I apologize to you Overtime. Also kudos on finally writing something other than nonsense on one of these boards. Your input is appreciated and will be taken into account, in my future dealings.
Iv'e never seen a sabretooth 3 stat in a deck in a competitive tournament in my life, and sentinels are also rarely used also. Why someone would think that they are part of "the same 20 characters always used" is beyond me.
I would ask rucker which same 20 characters he thinks are overused, but he got banned from these forums due to his abusive language toward Onslaught, so he can't reply.
QuoteTop tier decks can be so cruel. This blonde kid just wanted to use a Danger Room homebase deck...
This kid actually looks a little like I did at age 11, or so :D
Also, for the record, I think DANGER ROOM would hang in there with a lot of the top tier decks
if the Aspect card wasn't nerf'd by the errata. If the errata instead simply removed the last words, "... already in play." and you couldn't use Special cards to defend my attacks made with Power cards... 8)
Post Merge: July 11, 2011, 08:44:36 PM
Oh yeah, also,
@ Onslaught:
That's a pretty fresh,
potentially top-tier deck, for sure. So, kudos there. But I was really curious what the actual deck-build would look. Would you mind posting the specifics for how you would balance this deck out? ;D (that's my winningest smile)
P.S.
I was gonna say, "in particular the Power cards." but that's not even true, I'm sincerely curious how you would build the whole thing, top to bottom.
Appropriate power card distribution is pretty easy to figure out for that deck. I would use three 8's, and two of everything else. Even though the only 8-stats in the deck are energy based, i would still use one 8 any-power so you have one 8 that wont get stopped by EVENTS.
Nice deck!
I really like the way this deck plays on paper. The pure teammate avoids are so good, playing 2 characters with them in the same deck can't go unmentioned. With the 2 avoiders, Sentinels will almost never get attacked, and the 7 energy and strength teamworks allow for instant 10's from Zealot or Sabertooth. All of the cards that can be played defensively also allow you to greedily place power cards, and play cards like Mutant Countermeasures without getting smashed by a teamwork right off the bat.
Quote from: drdeath25 on March 16, 2011, 04:02:06 AM
Appropriate power card distribution is pretty easy to figure out for that deck. I would use three 8's, and two of everything else. Even though the only 8-stats in the deck are energy based, i would still use one 8 any-power so you have one 8 that wont get stopped by EVENTS.
I meant for this deck:
QuoteSentinels, Zealot, Serpent Society, 3-stat Sabretooth, Any Heroes, Fatal Attractions
Still the same for that deck IMO. Three 8's, and 2 of everything else.
hm. And what about the rest of the deck?
Ncann, Would you like to post what your deck-list would be for that deck? And then I will tell you if i agree or would change anything? Don't forget to include the fatal attractions EVENTS. Those are important in this deck.
i'll give it a shot, i guess. it's just that i'm not too confident i'll be able to pull it all together effectively. it seemed like it'd be a lot faster, and i'd save face, if i was just given an example of how that would work.with your (you and Onslaught) experience, it seems like you guys have a much different idea of how deck balance should look. i'm being genuine, here, because even just looking at putting 18 power cards in a deck seems strange to me... anyway, i'll give it some thought tonight and post something in the morning, sure :)
My take on it: (i acknowledge that I am nowhere the Overpower player or deckbuilder that Onslaught is but this is how i would tweak this build for my own style)
Specials:
ANYHERO
WebHead
Power Leech
Justice League of America
Devourer of Worlds
Death from Above
Gamma Terror
Bastion
Confusion
Guardian Angle
ZEALOT:
Kherubim (anti-negate OPD)
Warrior Soul
Wild Cat x2
Sentinels:
Mastor Mold x3
Mutant Countermeasures x2
Robot Mentality x2
Serpent Society:
ASP
Cobra x3
Sidwinder x2
Sabertooth
Government Operative x2
Wildcat Attack
Universe:
Teamworks 6E+S?F, 6F+I/S, 6S+I/F, 7E+I/F, 7F+I/S, 7S+I/F, 8F+I/S
Ally: -5E+3, -5I+3
Events: Down But Not Out, Shockwave Rocks the World, Best Laid Plans
Power Cards, F-5, 6, 7, 8, 8, 8 S-2, 2, 3, 3, 4, 4, I-1, 1, AP-5, 6, 7
I thinks that 57 cards.
i played light on Zealot specials (she seems to be top front line target). High on Robot Specials becuase they sit between two pure avoids so are less likley to be struck down.
Thoughts?
I hate running Death from Above in fighting decks, but some people like it. I'd drop an 8f for an 8 anypower as well, just to get around Silver Tongued Devil. I don't mind running a Clef Blade. I wouldn't run more than x1 of any Sentinel card except Mastermold (at x3). Sometimes you might want the second AR, but this particular deck really needs to avoid duping as much as possible since it's so easy to win if you make it to the power pack. For the same reason I'd drop the Wildcat Attack and just stick with x2 Government Operative. I think you forgot Fortress in the Any Hero section? Also I love Down But Not Out, but not for this deck. I also hate running a duplicate level 1 power card if it can be avoided. I'd drop down to just one ally as well (intellect).
All of that is just preference though, so don't take it as gospel if you prefer a second AR, a few more powercards, etc. There are no hard and fast rules, it just depends on how you play or what a specific deck is trying to do. Hell, there are even some decks where I'd run x3 copies of an AR. Whatever works for you.
Quote from: CoS on March 17, 2011, 03:27:00 AM
i played light on Zealot specials (she seems to be top front line target). High on Robot Specials becuase they sit between two pure avoids so are less likley to be struck down.
Very smart idea. Sentinels very rarely get attacked. I also used 7 Sentinel specials and 4 Zealot specials in the version of this deck I playtested. Our decks would look very similar although, I use one less E Teamwork, maybee 2 (if someone does attack sentinels, you don't want to lose 9 cards unique to only them, and also you want to maximize potential on the Shockwave turn). Either way, I like your deckbuild quite a bit, there is only about a 5 card difference in your version from the version of this I played with in the past.
Post Merge: July 11, 2011, 08:43:36 PM
Quote from: Onslaught on March 17, 2011, 05:46:33 AM
I hate running Death from Above in fighting decks, but some people like it. I'd drop an 8f for an 8 anypower as well, just to get around Silver Tongued Devil. I don't mind running a Clef Blade. I wouldn't run more than x1 of any Sentinel card except Mastermold (at x3). Sometimes you might want the second AR, but this particular deck really needs to avoid duping as much as possible since it's so easy to win if you make it to the power pack. For the same reason I'd drop the Wildcat Attack and just stick with x2 Government Operative. I think you forgot Fortress in the Any Hero section? Also I love Down But Not Out, but not for this deck. I also hate running a duplicate level 1 power card if it can be avoided. I'd drop down to just one ally as well (intellect).
All of that is just preference though, so don't take it as gospel if you prefer a second AR, a few more powercards, etc. There are no hard and fast rules, it just depends on how you play or what a specific deck is trying to do. Hell, there are even some decks where I'd run x3 copies of an AR. Whatever works for you.
I agree 100% with everything you said here.
Quote from: drdeath25 on March 17, 2011, 05:51:02 AM
Quote from: Onslaught on March 17, 2011, 05:46:33 AM
I hate running Death from Above in fighting decks, but some people like it. I'd drop an 8f for an 8 anypower as well, just to get around Silver Tongued Devil. I don't mind running a Clef Blade. I wouldn't run more than x1 of any Sentinel card except Mastermold (at x3). Sometimes you might want the second AR, but this particular deck really needs to avoid duping as much as possible since it's so easy to win if you make it to the power pack. For the same reason I'd drop the Wildcat Attack and just stick with x2 Government Operative. I think you forgot Fortress in the Any Hero section? Also I love Down But Not Out, but not for this deck. I also hate running a duplicate level 1 power card if it can be avoided. I'd drop down to just one ally as well (intellect).
All of that is just preference though, so don't take it as gospel if you prefer a second AR, a few more powercards, etc. There are no hard and fast rules, it just depends on how you play or what a specific deck is trying to do. Hell, there are even some decks where I'd run x3 copies of an AR. Whatever works for you.
I agree 100% with everything you said here.
So, this is what I mean... I see you're saying to drop Death From Above, Mutant Countermeasures, Robot Mentality, Wildcat Attack, Down But Not Out, and a 1 Anyhero.
You only added Clef Blade and Fortress Of Solitude.
That leaves the deck at 53 cards... where else would you add some cards, then? Would you add
different Sentinels specials? Would you add a few more teamworks? This is where adding Power Cards makes sense to me... This is how I would build this deck:
Any Heroes - AA, AC, AG, AR, BQ, BY, DB, EN, OD, ZZ
Zealot - EM, AD, AD, MP, MC
Sentinels - EE, EE, GA, CZ, AR, AR
Serpent Society - BM, AO, AO, AD, AD
Sabretooth - AD, AD, AR
Teamworks - 8F, 7F, 7E, 7S, 6S
Power Cards - 8FFA, 7 FFA, 6 FFA, 5FFA, 4SS, 3SS, 2SS, I11
Best Laid Plans, Shockwave Rocks The World
Post Merge: July 11, 2011, 08:43:45 PM
Also, I didn't realize at first, that Serpent Society is a 3-6-6-3. Since they provide that 6S for that offsuit teamwork, couldn't you drop Sentinels out of the team? I know their purpose was to bring in an EE, to emulate the Energy team described in the beginning, but it seems like this team has all of the defense it could ever want. Since all of the avoids in the deck have no numeric limitation, it doesn't matter if they follow up a teamwork with an 8 PC. Wouldn't it be better to get some more offense out of your 20-pointer? Not to mention having better Power Pack access.
Howcome nobody is using A-Next? That's a really good card.
Ncann, when you hit 53, i would of added a 6F Teamwork, A-Next and made sure I had 3 of Serpent Society's "Cobra". But then again, I would of also took a few cards out of your build. Ill post my list up later.
I sometimes forget about A-Next because I don't have it :-\
Everyone has different strategies with the way the build their deck, so their is no 'right' or 'wrong'. This is the version of this deck I tested in the past, which I felt best fit my playstyle.
Roster:
Zealot - Kherbium, Warrior Soul, Clef Blade, Wildcat
Sentinels - Master Mold x3, Robot Mentaility, Nimrod, Mutant Countermeasures
Serpent Society - Cobra x3, Asp, Sidewinder x2
Sabretooh (Original) - Government Opperative x3
Any Heroes
Bastion, Confusion, Death From Above, Gamma Terror, Guardian, Devouer of Worlds, Wizard in Tophat & Tails, Power Leech, Fortress of Solitude, JLA
Power Cards
8- FFA
7 - FA
6 - FA
5 - MA
4 - SS
3 - MS
2 - MS
1 - MS
Teamworks
6F I/S, 7F I/S, 8F I/S, 7E F/S, 7S F/I, 6S F/I
Ally
5I
Aspect
A-Next
EVENTS
Best Laid Plans
Shockwave Rocks The World
Quote from: drdeath25 on March 17, 2011, 05:33:40 PM
This is the version of this deck I tested in the past, which I felt best fit my playstyle.
HOLD ON JUST A MIN! If you played this in past tournament does that mean Onslaught COPIED you? People have been accusing him of being a deck cloner.
Quote from: Overtime on March 17, 2011, 06:25:38 PM
Quote from: drdeath25 on March 17, 2011, 05:33:40 PM
This is the version of this deck I tested in the past, which I felt best fit my playstyle.
HOLD ON JUST A MIN! If you played this in past tournament does that mean Onslaught COPIED you? People have been accusing him of being a deck cloner.
100% Correct, Overtime. I played with this deck in the Mission Control ERA, Before IQ even came out. So yea, Fleer copied my homemade cards also.
Quote from: Overtime on March 17, 2011, 06:25:38 PM
HOLD ON JUST A MIN! If you played this in past tournament does that mean Onslaught COPIED you? People have been accusing him of being a deck cloner.
I think he is just referring to a testing session yesterday when he used my deck a few times. I like playing against my own decks to get insight into how other people might use them differently than me, which sometimes can open up new perspectives.
Oh alright. So what was the win ratio? I don't play for money but still want to know if it is a big enough threat to tech against.
Quote from: CoS on March 17, 2011, 03:27:00 AM
Thoughts?
Props to you for posting this deck, CoS. It seems the consensus is not to overload a deck with so many power cards like I tend to do. I'm still (at the moment) most comfortable with Any Hero decks so it was cool to see that someone still uses them when deck building.
Quote from: drdeath25 on March 16, 2011, 02:37:26 AM
I would ask rucker which same 20 characters he thinks are overused, but he got banned from these forums due to his abusive language toward Onslaught, so he can't reply.
And I would like to take this moment to welcome myself back and respond to your question Dr.D
Starjammers, Scarlet Witch, Spawn, X-Man, Reavers, X-Babies, Spider-Woman, Heroes For Hire, Sentinels, Professor X, Sabretooth, Hawkeye, Donald Pierce, Bastion, The Marauders, Mr.Fantastic, Spider-Girl, The Flash,(with Marvels) Silver Sable and Dr.Strange
I would say that those are the 20 most used and abused OP characters.... with Beast(and Varients), The Ray and Hulk almost making the cut.
Most competitive decks will see 2 of those characters out of a pool of over 250 to choose from.
Quote from: rucker73 on March 22, 2011, 11:49:31 AM
[And I would like to take this moment to welcome myself back and respond to your question Dr.D
Starjammers, Scarlet Witch, Spawn, X-Man, Reavers, X-Babies, Spider-Woman, Heroes For Hire, Sentinels, Professor X, Sabretooth, Hawkeye, Donald Pierce, Bastion, The Marauders, Mr.Fantastic, Spider-Girl, The Flash,(with Marvels) Silver Sable and Dr.Strange
I would say that those are the 20 most used and abused OP characters.... with Beast(and Varients), The Ray and Hulk almost making the cut.
Most competitive decks will see 2 of those characters out of a pool of over 250 to choose from.
First off welcome back! I would like to add some to your list: The Marauders, Holocaust, Mojo, Serpent Society, White Queen, (with marvels) Phoenix, Inhumans(I would say they are better than Spawn).
Quote from: Overtime on March 22, 2011, 05:26:06 PM
Quote from: rucker73 on March 22, 2011, 11:49:31 AM
[And I would like to take this moment to welcome myself back and respond to your question Dr.D
Starjammers, Scarlet Witch, Spawn, X-Man, Reavers, X-Babies, Spider-Woman, Heroes For Hire, Sentinels, Professor X, Sabretooth, Hawkeye, Donald Pierce, Bastion, The Marauders, Mr.Fantastic, Spider-Girl, The Flash,(with Marvels) Silver Sable and Dr.Strange
I would say that those are the 20 most used and abused OP characters.... with Beast(and Varients), The Ray and Hulk almost making the cut.
Most competitive decks will see 2 of those characters out of a pool of over 250 to choose from.
First off welcome back! I would like to add some to your list: The Marauders, Holocaust, Mojo, Serpent Society, White Queen, (with marvels) Phoenix, Inhumans(I would say they are better than Spawn).
Overused? I thought those you listed were the most popular characters period. I mean who's heard of wolverine, gambit, spiderman, captain america, all the other xmen/avengers, batman, superman, JLA, joker, riddler, etc... :D