Not that anyone actually ever tries to KO battlesites, but say someone was using Alpha Flight and played Madison Jeffries against my battlesite, other than negating it, is there any other way to block it?
I guess I'm wondering can you use a Teammate avoid or a card from the battlesite to defend it? Or just power cards and negates?
According to the rules, you can use any plain Power cards to defend your Battlesite, and you can use cards from the Battlesite. That's all. So, according to the rules, you can't use your Front Line's Special cards to defend your Battlesite.
Yea the battlesite doesn't count as a teammate.
I just thought of something, regarding this...
If my Battlesite is attacked, I know I can use an AG from my Battlesite, but can I use a teammate-AD? I don't think I can...
If the attack was on my last character standing, I can't use that AD to avoid it, since technically speaking, it's to be used to defend a
teammate.
So, in the same way, if my Battlesite is attacked, I can only defend it with the
personal defenses from under the Battlesite, right (since it's explicitly
not a teammate)?
Post Merge: July 11, 2011, 06:23:25 PM
Quote from: rucker73 on March 22, 2011, 11:25:29 AM
Not that anyone actually ever tries to KO battlesites, but say someone was using Alpha Flight and played Madison Jeffries against my battlesite, other than negating it, is there any other way to block it?
I guess I'm wondering can you use a Teammate avoid or a card from the battlesite to defend it? Or just power cards and negates?
Also, I don't think you can use a Negate from your Front Line to defend your Battlesite. This is from the Rule book:
Quote•Defend with an Activator card - A Battlesite may play any Activator card that can be immediately exchanged for a Special card that will defeat the Power Type or Value of the incoming attack, just as a Front Line Character could (See above). At no time may any of your Front Line Characters play Special cards to defend a Battlesite unless the Special card itself specifically says so.
Emphasis added
According to that rules website that was posted earlier, it appears that a battlesite can ONLY be defended by power cards without universe cards or from cards played by the battlesite.
"To defend itself, a battlesite can do one of 2 things: (1) Play any power card usable by the current conscious team of heroes - no universe cards for bonuses, just raw power cards (2) Any defensive Special placed under it can be activated by the battlesite to defend. Of course, the activator card needs to be in hand - you can't just pull out any specials you want. Also, note that the Battlesite has to play the card - not one of the Front Line Characters. Therefore, an "Avoid 1 attack" would be a legal Special for the battlesite to play for defense but "Teammate avoid 1 attack" would not be."
Could you negate a special card hit after it is on the battlesite?
Yes, you can play the Negate offensively to remove the special from the Battlesite on your turn.
I'm pretty sure that you can play a Negate defensively in this case, even for an attack against the Battlesite, as long as the Negate does not have any restrictions like "Target Teammate" or any other such wording. A Negate, while it is being played defensively, is not the same as a defensive card like an "Avoid 1 Attack," so it is not subject to the same restrictions for defending your Battlesite. An avoid is character specific and a teammate avoid implies that another character is involved, while most Negates do not require that a character be the target of the attack.
Quote from: NickW on April 11, 2011, 08:14:40 PM
Yes, you can play the Negate offensively to remove the special from the Battlesite on your turn.
I'm pretty sure that you can play a Negate defensively in this case, even for an attack against the Battlesite, as long as the Negate does not have any restrictions like "Target Teammate" or any other such wording. A Negate, while it is being played defensively, is not the same as a defensive card like an "Avoid 1 Attack," so it is not subject to the same restrictions for defending your Battlesite. An avoid is character specific and a teammate avoid implies that another character is involved, while most Negates do not require that a character be the target of the attack.
I just don't know. The wording in the rule seems explicit. A negate is a Special card and it doesn't specifically say it can be used to defend the Battlesite...
Quote from: ncannelora on April 12, 2011, 11:30:32 AM
Quote from: NickW on April 11, 2011, 08:14:40 PM
Yes, you can play the Negate offensively to remove the special from the Battlesite on your turn.
I'm pretty sure that you can play a Negate defensively in this case, even for an attack against the Battlesite, as long as the Negate does not have any restrictions like "Target Teammate" or any other such wording. A Negate, while it is being played defensively, is not the same as a defensive card like an "Avoid 1 Attack," so it is not subject to the same restrictions for defending your Battlesite. An avoid is character specific and a teammate avoid implies that another character is involved, while most Negates do not require that a character be the target of the attack.
I just don't know. The wording in the rule seems explicit. A negate is a Special card and it doesn't specifically say it can be used to defend the Battlesite...
I think Nick is right about this because of the word 'opponent' on the negate cards. The broader use of negates is similar to the reasoning behind meta rule 51 for the AI specials. The reserve character can't be affected by a special that say 'target hero/character must discard x', but can be by a special that says 'opponent must discard x'. In the same vein a negate can be played to defend a teammate of the character that has the negate because it is stopping the
opponent's action irregardless of his/her target character. Conversely, a personal/teammate avoid specifically stops an action directed at a particular hero/teammate. (wich a battelsite is not) In short I think it could be used, not because it's defending the battlesite, but because its stopping the opponent...clear as mud right. :-\
Quote from: Nostalgic on April 12, 2011, 04:43:59 PM
Quote from: ncannelora on April 12, 2011, 11:30:32 AM
Quote from: NickW on April 11, 2011, 08:14:40 PM
Yes, you can play the Negate offensively to remove the special from the Battlesite on your turn.
I'm pretty sure that you can play a Negate defensively in this case, even for an attack against the Battlesite, as long as the Negate does not have any restrictions like "Target Teammate" or any other such wording. A Negate, while it is being played defensively, is not the same as a defensive card like an "Avoid 1 Attack," so it is not subject to the same restrictions for defending your Battlesite. An avoid is character specific and a teammate avoid implies that another character is involved, while most Negates do not require that a character be the target of the attack.
I just don't know. The wording in the rule seems explicit. A negate is a Special card and it doesn't specifically say it can be used to defend the Battlesite...
I think Nick is right about this because of the word 'opponent' on the negate cards. The broader use of negates is similar to the reasoning behind meta rule 51 for the AI specials. The reserve character can't be affected by a special that say 'target hero/character must discard x', but can be by a special that says 'opponent must discard x'. In the same vein a negate can be played to defend a teammate of the character that has the negate because it is stopping the opponent's action irregardless of his/her target character. Conversely, a personal/teammate avoid specifically stops an action directed at a particular hero/teammate. (wich a battelsite is not) In short I think it could be used, not because it's defending the battlesite, but because its stopping the opponent...clear as mud right. :-\
Yeah, but the rule says the Front Line can't play Specials unless they say they can defend the Battlesite, not if it says it's stopping the opponent instead of defending a teammate...
Don't get me wrong, if my opponent wants to Negate my Lv.6 Int attack from Domino, that's fine with me. I could think of worse ways to draw out a Negate ;)
Quote from: ncannelora on April 12, 2011, 05:35:57 PM
Yeah, but the rule says the Front Line can't play Specials unless they say they can defend the Battlesite, not if it says it's stopping the opponent instead of defending a teammate...
(http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k523/bluemarine30/Overpower/Images%20and%20gifs/Colossus.jpg)
True... :-\ 8)
While I was not involved in writing it, the Monumental rulebook section on Locations was widely recognized as being abridged and incomplete. There was not enough room for the full explanation, so it was summed up into something that was less than accurate. When it says your characters cannot play specials to defend it, that meant standard defensive cards like "Avoid 1 attack" or "Teammate may avoid 1 attack." Negates can still be used unless something else is in play that prevents them from being played, like the additional text on DoW or an Event or something that prevents that character from making any actions.
Well, like I said:
Quote from: ncannelora on April 12, 2011, 05:35:57 PM
Don't get me wrong, if my opponent wants to Negate my Lv.6 Int attack from Domino, that's fine with me. I could think of worse ways to draw out a Negate ;)
Quote from: NickW on April 12, 2011, 06:45:52 PM
While I was not involved in writing it, the Monumental rulebook section on Locations was widely recognized as being abridged and incomplete. There was not enough room for the full explanation, so it was summed up into something that was less than accurate. When it says your characters cannot play specials to defend it, that meant standard defensive cards like "Avoid 1 attack" or "Teammate may avoid 1 attack." Negates can still be used unless something else is in play that prevents them from being played, like the additional text on DoW or an Event or something that prevents that character from making any actions.
I feel like if they hadn't put anything else in the rulebook and had just dedicated it to how locations work, that would have been better than putting everything else in there and not covering locations well. The single most complicated thing I have to explain to someone when I teach them the game is locations. When I first found out about them I was totally blown away. It took me a long time to get a grasp on them. That was before this forum and even before the first iteration of this forum so I was pretty much scouring the internet looking for answers.
Quote from: Nostalgic on April 12, 2011, 06:07:10 PM
Quote from: ncannelora on April 12, 2011, 05:35:57 PM
Yeah, but the rule says the Front Line can't play Specials unless they say they can defend the Battlesite, not if it says it's stopping the opponent instead of defending a teammate...
(http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k523/bluemarine30/Overpower/Images%20and%20gifs/Colossus.jpg)
True... :-\ 8)
what does petey have to do with this thread?:)
I too would agree that Negates should be able to defend a battlesite because of their broader use. Similarily I would say a teamwork on a Battlesite would have be defendable by a card like TroubleMaker simply because the follow-ups could still target a hero and the only way to make Troublemaker effective is to play it to counter the initial teamwork attack.
So I had to resurrect this thread as I was looking at Nick's old site and found that he actually said the following:
" The Battlesite may defend itself by playing a Power card that is usable by any of your front line characters. The normal rules for defense still apply, i.e., a level 4 attack can be blocked by a level 4 or higher power card. Also, you may play an Activator card to retrieve a defensive Special to defend the Battlesite, except that a "Teammate avoid..." may not be used. Your front line characters may NOT play Special cards to defend the Battlesite, including a negate. "http://justabgkid.com/ripayuheadoffs/op/part11.html
Earlier in this thread, but of course years after the site was made, Nick said:
Quote from: NickW on April 11, 2011, 08:14:40 PM
Yes, you can play the Negate offensively to remove the special from the Battlesite on your turn.
I'm pretty sure that you can play a Negate defensively in this case, even for an attack against the Battlesite, as long as the Negate does not have any restrictions like "Target Teammate" or any other such wording. A Negate, while it is being played defensively, is not the same as a defensive card like an "Avoid 1 Attack," so it is not subject to the same restrictions for defending your Battlesite. An avoid is character specific and a teammate avoid implies that another character is involved, while most Negates do not require that a character be the target of the attack.
So I guess I reverse my previous opinion which agreed with that in light of the fact he was closer to the game's intent "back-in-the-day". It's not that the negate itself does or does not require a character to be the target of an attack to be played, its that playing the card itself results in 'defense of the battlesite.' Since 2 and only 2 very specific options are listed in the rules for 'defense of the battlesite,' unmodified power cards and specials from the battlesite itself, a negate is not an option to be played.