I am wondering what cards should be in every deck. I know that Beyonder as an activator is one that has been mentioned as very useful for any deck. Another that I have heard is necessary is the ability to negate. Are there other cards/card types that every deck needs?
Typically every Battlesite deck will have a Beyonder Activator.
Every Any-Hero Deck will have a DoW, Bastion, Power Leech, Guardian, and maybe a few more.
And almost every other deck will use a 5 Multipower, and possibly an A-Next.
How disadvantageous is not having some of these cards. For instance, i don't have a Beyonder, DoW, or 5 Multi-power. Also, I don't use A-Next so I must be missing what is good about it.
Out of the 3 you listed, the biggest disadvantage to you would be playing a Any Hero deck without DoW. DoW was essentially made, because almost everyone switched over to using battlesites instead of any heroes. I suspect you could get away with not having a Beyonder or 5M.
I like Any-Heroes but I don't think I have a lot of the really good ones and I wind up liking Battle-sites better. I do wish I had a Beyonder though. It seems like such a fun card all around for its usefulness and uniqueness.
DoW definitely rapes Battlesites, so I'd say that's the most important thing for an Any-Heroes deck. It sounds like a game-winner to me.
Things like 5M, 8A, and Beyonder are nice but not deal breakers. As said, Beyonder is the most attractive Battlesite card though.
As far as I know, the general essentials are negates, avoids, 9+ attacks. Any deck with at least 2 of each should be able to hold it's own I would suspect. I'd like to see the "Unbeatable Decks" thread validate this, though.
Something I always like to do is find ways around what is considered to be the standard way of doing things. For instance, making a deck with none of these things in it and seeing if I can make it work and competitive.
My ten staple any heroes:
Leech
Bastion
DoW
Guardian
Web Head
Confusion
New Universe
JLA
Death from above
Gamma Terror
These ten cards almost always see play and come in handy. Occasionally, I'll use an urban hunters, which I've found fun once in a while, but it's hardly a staple.
Quote from: Palatinus on April 11, 2011, 01:36:59 PM
Something I always like to do is find ways around what is considered to be the standard way of doing things. For instance, making a deck with none of these things in it and seeing if I can make it work and competitive.
I agree. You need to think outside the box in order to find new ideas. OP online has enabled me to try out a crapload of things I never would have tried with real cards (primarily because of the time it takes to assemble and sleeve a real deck).
So I'm all for taking out the usual staples to see what you can find.
I'm thinking for an upcoming meetup, that it might be fun to do a 'no any hero, no battlesite' theme, so that each team is reliant on it's own abilities.
-BBH
Quote from: BigBadHarve on April 11, 2011, 02:02:36 PM
I'm thinking for an upcoming meetup, that it might be fun to do a 'no any hero, no battlesite' theme, so that each team is reliant on it's own abilities.
-BBH
I love this idea!
That sounds like a really neat idea. I mean, for me, that's the way I have played most of the time I've played Overpower. I only found out about location cards years after the fact and I never really had many Any Heroes. I still don't have JLA, Dow, or New Universe. I can't remember if I have a Leech. I know my wife has one and that is the reason why I make sure I have a Negate handy. Leech is killer!
Power cards. :P
Just saying they're the only cards that are indispensable.... :D
Quote from: Nostalgic on April 11, 2011, 07:57:17 PM
Power cards. :P
Just saying they're the only cards that are indispensable.... :D
Umm... Power cards? What are they? I'm not sure I've ever used them... :P
-BBH
Quote from: BigBadHarve on April 12, 2011, 06:49:08 PM
Quote from: Nostalgic on April 11, 2011, 07:57:17 PM
Power cards. :P
Just saying they're the only cards that are indispensable.... :D
Umm... Power cards? What are they? I'm not sure I've ever used them... :P
-BBH
They were used to "power" universe cards, which are useless. So since nobody uses universe cards power cards must have become obsolete. :D
Quote from: Nostalgic on April 12, 2011, 09:27:31 PM
Quote from: BigBadHarve on April 12, 2011, 06:49:08 PM
Quote from: Nostalgic on April 11, 2011, 07:57:17 PM
Power cards. :P
Just saying they're the only cards that are indispensable.... :D
Umm... Power cards? What are they? I'm not sure I've ever used them... :P
-BBH
They were used to "power" universe cards, which are useless. So since nobody uses universe cards power cards must have become obsolete. :D
I have been teaching my mom to play and we have only been using cards from the original Overpower set so there are a lot of universe cards getting used, let me tell you. She just beat my awesome deck of Beast, War Machine, Rouge, and Colossus with her deck of Storm, Jubilee, Silver Surfer, and Invisible Woman. It was close though. Went to the first hand from the power pack.
Also, teamwork cards are universe cards. And everyone plays them. So there is at least one reason to use power cards. I can see a deck being built without power cards though. It would be an interesting thing. Is that something people have done?
Quote from: Palatinus on April 12, 2011, 09:57:55 PM
Quote from: Nostalgic on April 12, 2011, 09:27:31 PM
Quote from: BigBadHarve on April 12, 2011, 06:49:08 PM
Quote from: Nostalgic on April 11, 2011, 07:57:17 PM
Power cards. :P
Just saying they're the only cards that are indispensable.... :D
Umm... Power cards? What are they? I'm not sure I've ever used them... :P
-BBH
They were used to "power" universe cards, which are useless. So since nobody uses universe cards power cards must have become obsolete. :D
I can see a deck being built without power cards though. It would be an interesting thing. Is that something people have done?
In the FF Plaza era I had a Shadowcat deck that could reliably beat FFP decks (unfortunately it lost to most other decks). It had 3 power cards I think and could have easily done without those. I called it the Proxy Deck because it had 24 copies of Shadowcat's Ghostly Phase so you pretty much had to use Proxies!
That's pretty intense. Did you have a way to shift attacks to her?
Quote from: Palatinus on April 12, 2011, 09:57:55 PM
I have been teaching my mom to play and we have only been using cards from the original Overpower set so there are a lot of universe cards getting used, let me tell you. She just beat my awesome deck of Beast, War Machine, Rouge, and Colossus with her deck of Storm, Jubilee, Silver Surfer, and Invisible Woman. It was close though. Went to the first hand from the power pack.
Also, teamwork cards are universe cards. And everyone plays them. So there is at least one reason to use power cards. I can see a deck being built without power cards though. It would be an interesting thing. Is that something people have done?
Using any pointers from the site below? ;)
http://www.davidjohnmarotta.com/op/teach.html
Quote from: Palatinus on April 12, 2011, 10:31:36 PM
That's pretty intense. Did you have a way to shift attacks to her?
Numerous. Apart from Shadowcat's avoids the rest of the deck was ways to add to venture without attacking and ways to shift attacks onto Shadowcat. Because this rendered all the avoids of the FF deck useless it could beat FF plaza decks almost all the time. Other decks? Not so much... I can post the deck if anyone is actually interested but its more of an historical artifact at this point. Still, by taking out three cards it could be made into a power card free deck.
Throw in iron man: original armor and jubilee and seems like a stone wall for sure... :P
Quote from: JohnL on April 13, 2011, 12:47:06 AM
Numerous. Apart from Shadowcat's avoids the rest of the deck was ways to add to venture without attacking and ways to shift attacks onto Shadowcat. Because this rendered all the avoids of the FF deck useless it could beat FF plaza decks almost all the time. Other decks? Not so much... I can post the deck if anyone is actually interested but its more of an historical artifact at this point. Still, by taking out three cards it could be made into a power card free deck.
As much as people hated it, the shift era was kinda cool because of stuff like this. It was far too centralized for most players, but it allowed for weirdo effects to be used that would otherwise be unseen. A deck with no powercards, a deck with The New Warriors/Infinity Gauntlet, a deck based around looping Gift of the Gods, a deck with Metallo and Captain Mar-Vell, etc - none of these creative things would have been viable without the strange effect that shifting had on the metagame.
Like everyone else I'm glad that it eventually went away, but it was fun in small doses to allow for some new innovations.
Quote from: Onslaught on April 13, 2011, 03:31:58 AMAs much as people hated it, the shift era was kinda cool because of stuff like this. It was far too centralized for most players, but it allowed for weirdo effects to be used that would otherwise be unseen. A deck with no powercards, a deck with The New Warriors/Infinity Gauntlet, a deck based around looping Gift of the Gods, a deck with Metallo and Captain Mar-Vell, etc - none of these creative things would have been viable without the strange effect that shifting had on the metagame.
Like everyone else I'm glad that it eventually went away, but it was fun in small doses to allow for some new innovations.
Interesting. Not quite sure I understand looping Gift of the Gods though, explain?
Quote from: Onslaught on April 13, 2011, 03:31:58 AM
As much as people hated it, the shift era was kinda cool because of stuff like this. It was far too centralized for most players, but it allowed for weirdo effects to be used that would otherwise be unseen. A deck with no powercards, a deck with The New Warriors/Infinity Gauntlet, a deck based around looping Gift of the Gods, a deck with Metallo and Captain Mar-Vell, etc - none of these creative things would have been viable without the strange effect that shifting had on the metagame.
Like everyone else I'm glad that it eventually went away, but it was fun in small doses to allow for some new innovations.
Yeah, there were some interesting strategies. The problem with the shifting era was that shifting became pretty much mandatory. Some of these options are still available, just a little trickier to build around and therefore to have your deck rely on it. Still... remembering back to the first time someone pulled the Gift of the Gods loop on me, I was running Morbius and negated his 2nd one with a Morbius negate to which he responded - 'Come on! No one uses those!' ;D
Good times.
Quote from: metaphist on April 13, 2011, 09:34:13 AM
Interesting. Not quite sure I understand looping Gift of the Gods though, explain?
Play a character with a 'Gift of the Gods' type card (Ghost Rider, Banshee, Thor, Inhumans...Am I missing anyone?) Load up your deck with a ton of them, set up Vertigo and just play Gift of the Gods to summon another gift of the Gods - repeatedly stalling until your opponent has used up all of his attacks. It's annoying when it works.
-BBH
Quote from: BigBadHarvePlay a character with a 'Gift of the Gods' type card (Ghost Rider, Banshee, Thor, Inhumans...Am I missing anyone?)
That's all of them, at least coded DS.
With the release of IQ I was a fan of the ShadowCat, Jubilee, Beyonder front line. Throw a venture manipulator in reserve and you could easily play a deck with no powercards.
Quote from: CoS on April 13, 2011, 01:40:43 PM
With the release of IQ I was a fan of the ShadowCat, Jubilee, Beyonder front line. Throw a venture manipulator in reserve and you could easily play a deck with no powercards.
That's just crazy talk!
By the way, is Beyonder worth 28 for deck building? I think I remember that...
Quote from: ncannelora on April 13, 2011, 01:42:47 PM
By the way, is Beyonder worth 28 for deck building? I think I remember that...
That is correct.
With all the "power-cardless" decks I hope you don't make it to the power pack. :D
Quote from: Nostalgic on April 13, 2011, 02:01:35 PM
Quote from: ncannelora on April 13, 2011, 01:42:47 PM
By the way, is Beyonder worth 28 for deck building? I think I remember that...
That is correct.
With all the "power-cardless" decks I hope you don't make it to the power pack. :D
Just play Dark Phoenix Saga and you'll be okay.
Quote from: Palatinus on April 13, 2011, 02:36:00 PM
Just play Dark Phoenix Saga and you'll be okay.
:D Good 1.
A tool for every problem.
Of course if anyone plays one of those events that say "no special cards may be played" you're in a bet 7 situation. Lol!
Only if they know you don't have any power cards. Just fake them out. "Man, I guess I haven't been getting any power cards until now because they were all bunched in my deck. Now I have a hand full of them."
Quote from: Palatinus on April 13, 2011, 03:02:33 PM
Only if they know you don't have any power cards. Just fake them out. "Man, I guess I haven't been getting any power cards until now because they were all bunched in my deck. Now I have a hand full of them."
I think you'd have to discard them as unusable unless the event says you don't have to.
Quote from: Nostalgic on April 13, 2011, 03:27:37 PM
Quote from: Palatinus on April 13, 2011, 03:02:33 PM
Only if they know you don't have any power cards. Just fake them out. "Man, I guess I haven't been getting any power cards until now because they were all bunched in my deck. Now I have a hand full of them."
I think you'd have to discard them as unusable unless the event says you don't have to.
Fair enough. Some of them say "No X cards may be played. X cards are not discarded."
Quote from: Palatinus on April 13, 2011, 03:34:47 PM
Quote from: Nostalgic on April 13, 2011, 03:27:37 PM
Quote from: Palatinus on April 13, 2011, 03:02:33 PM
Only if they know you don't have any power cards. Just fake them out. "Man, I guess I haven't been getting any power cards until now because they were all bunched in my deck. Now I have a hand full of them."
I think you'd have to discard them as unusable unless the event says you don't have to.
Fair enough. Some of them say "No X cards may be played. X cards are not discarded."
Dunno about any others, but that is, in fact, how Down But Not Out is worded. So, you could keep all of the unusable AG-coded specials you'd want :D
So we may have proven that Power Cards are in fact not a staple card. As long as you don't mind not playing teamworks, doublteshots, making many attacks, or winning.
Quote from: Palatinus on April 13, 2011, 03:42:03 PM
So we may have proven that Power Cards are in fact not a staple card. As long as you don't mind not playing teamworks, doublteshots, making many attacks, or winning.
Lol! Indeed... 8)
Since I've been searching old hard drives for various images I actually came across the actual newsgroup posting I made about the Shadowcat 'almost power card free' deck. I was wrong above, it has 36 Ghostly Phases!
The Proxy Deck
Yeah, I know you've got all the cards but you're gonna need proxies for this one. No really, you WILL need proxies.
This deck can beat an FF plaza deck - quite easily sometimes. Unfortunately it gets the tar kicked out of it by almost every other deck! I'm posting it here for entertainment purposes. Got a friend who insists on playing FF cheese all the time? Make up this deck and beat 'em. (Shock value should get them the first time). Here it is with comments below:
Blue Beetle 4 6 4 5 (team +2 to venture)
Marauders 7 7 3 2
Shadowcat 6 3 3 6 (May have dup. Ghostly Phase specials)
The Flash (R)6 6 4 3 (Reap the w. from res)
Specials:
Marauders
4 x Vertigo (all attacks may be moved)
1 x Malice (exchange for 1 card)
Blue Beetle
2 x Frictionless foam (opp. Discards universe and -3 to venture)
Shadowcat
1 x Computer Genius (draw 3)
36 x Ghostly Phase (avoid 1 attack) (Now do you see why you're gonna need proxies?)
The Flash
2 x Reap the Whirlwind (discard 1 placed card)
Power cards:
1 x anypower 6,
1 x anypower 5,
1 x energy 4
Battlesite: Gamma Base w/ 4 Leader activators + Beyonder
Omnibus OPD (discard all cards w/ I icon in hand, opp. Discards hand and placed)
Twisted mentality (all attacks must be made on Leader)
Green 'n mean (opp -3 to venture, -6 if Ann. Affair)
Freehold (may have 1 extra card placed)
Homebase: Marvel universe - Opp. is -1 to venture total per battle
Mission: Seperation anxiety with:
No cards w/ fighting icon may be used to attack this battle
Sort thru draw pile card by card and put first card w/ energy icon in hand, may be dupe
Strategy: Basically sit there and do nothing. You have a venture advantage over the FF, so as long as you can avoid every attack they have you win. This cunning plan renders all their 'avoid 1 attack' and 'teammate may avoid 1 attack' cards useless.
The power cards are only there to give you something to place but remember to place them on Shadowcat! (I don't need to tell you not to attack with them do I?) The Battlesite gives you a couple of good cards (placing an additional card is the weakest but helps by giving you an extra Leader activator). The opp. -3 to venture total cards are useful in case your opponent does something funky that gives them venture points. Also, you may sometimes be able to let low power cards hit (eg. If you have a 3 to venture total and your opponent hits you with a 1,2 or 3. If you are able to venture for game next time then you might want to even let a 4 hit if it allows you to tie the venture and be in a good position for the next battle. Same principle applies to a level 1 power card in the absence of the +/- 3 to venture cards.
Use the Flash's special and Blue beetles special to get rid of any attacks your opponent places.
Use Leaders Twisted Mentality on Shadowcat as soon as possible. Since it is likely to be negated though, there are 4 Vertigos which should be enough to see you through.
The events are generally pretty useful. A large number of teams have F as their second icon so that event may work well, the other event gives you an activator (Leader or Beyonder) which may give you another shot at getting twisted mentality out early.
Venture high when you can (you have several potentially crushing cards - draw 3, Omnibus, and the no F icon event) because you have to win before the end game.
Hmm, the end game. The good news is that reshuffling the 4,5 and 6 will be pretty easy.
The end game - you don't want to be there. Nuff said.
Yes I am aware of the 1,001 ways to beat this deck, but I thought it was a bit different and variety is after all the spice of life. Passing as your opening move in a game is kind of cool.
That's a pretty fascinating build. It would be even better if Twisted Mentality was game-lasting. Or if Vertigo could be played defensively.
Today you could use Coda Island as your battle site and run Grunge's danger seeker as you OPD. However, finding 30+ ghostly phases will be hard for most players.
Of course! I totally forgot Grunge was on a Battlesite!
Quote from: CoS on April 13, 2011, 06:35:13 PMHowever, finding 30+ ghostly phases will be hard for most players.
i got 8