I just had a crazy idea, so I thought I'd share it here for initial feedback...
You know in some fighting games there's a mode where you just fight wave after wave of challengers, but your life never fully heals (I saw it first in Tekken Tag, I think)? And then they made the cool head to head version where you and a friend each choose a 3-character line-up and fight eachother in the same way, where your life isn't completely restored between KO's...
Overpower Survival Mode!!!
I figure that can go 2 ways:
A) we line our characters up in single file, and the fronts go head to head untill all 4 of some one's characters are dead...
B) we each make 3 teams, play out the 1st game and the winner leaves his draw pile, hits, even missions alone and the Opponent pulls in his fresh, second team
I'm gonna be thinking all day about how to make one (or both) of these versions work. Feel free to supply ideas and/or take off on this version for yourself! I'll post more ideas or hiccups as I consider them :D
I propose a modification of your second version. Rather than pulling in a second team, expand the reserve to have more than one character. Then as characters die you can replace them with anyone from the reserve.
Spinning off this, I think it would be cool if the front line and reserve could switch spots, so your current fighter could change like in Marvel vs Capcom. Maybe discard one card from hand to swap one front line withe reserve on your turn?
Quote from: ncannelora on August 09, 2011, 10:59:04 AM
B) we each make 3 teams, play out the 1st game and the winner leaves his draw pile, hits, even missions alone and the Opponent pulls in his fresh, second team
What if he beats his opponents first deck by missions. Can he leave all 7 in the completed pile for game 2, and 3? Thats a Combo win...
I was actually just thinking of this perdicament. I think, similar to how beating your Opponent by KO would reset their front line, I think beating your Opponent by Venture would reset your Missions, but otherwise, leave them as-is...
So, with careful planning, if you have your Opponent on the ropes and can win through KO, venture conservatively so that you start your next match going 1 FTW! I mean, theoretically, you'll be pretty banged up (having just gone through a whole game), and may already be in the Power Pack, etc. So it's unlikely that you'll have a shoe-in victory, starting at 6-1-0. But hey, this would be a totally new element to the game, so why not?
Of course, the easy answer is to reset the Missions, but not the hits, placements, or other cards in play.
I actually came up with a similar varian back in highschool.
4 characters using normal Sum deck rule building
Each character has his own deck of 15 - 20 cards.
All specials are OPD for the purpose of the much smaller decks, but there is no "dead" pile. All cards are power packed, but you are only allowed to flip your pack once per opponent.
No venture, no events, no activators, no Any Character specials. Just one-on-one brawls.
Last man with active heroes wins.
Those were the rules I came up with 17 years ago.
Quote from: Demacus on August 09, 2011, 03:56:10 PM
I actually came up with a similar varian back in highschool.
4 characters using normal Sum deck rule building
Each character has his own deck of 15 - 20 cards.
All specials are OPD for the purpose of the much smaller decks, but there is no "dead" pile. All cards are power packed, but you are only allowed to flip your pack once per opponent.
No venture, no events, no activators, no Any Character specials. Just one-on-one brawls.
Last man with active heroes wins.
Those were the rules I came up with 17 years ago.
Interesting! So, no Homebase either, then? or was that allowed so you could skirt the Sum Deck Rule, but you were still restricted some? I'm thinking specifically of Avalon, because the line up on that Homebase can be quite potent, indeed.
Anyway, this looks to be a brutal style of play and I think I like it :)
I didn't take locations into consideration, mostly cause when I came up with it, there were no aspect cards, so there really wasn't any real reason to use most homebases, since Teamworks, Venture, attack shifting, ect, ect, didn't apply. But I see no reason why you couldn't use a homebase team if you really like a particular line up, that being the case, I would allow for the homebase's Aspect in ONE of the 4 decks, with the Any Homebase Aspect, being like the Any Character specials, not being allowed. Could really change your strategy, based on knowing which of your characters has that 1 extra UMPH, that may, or may not make the difference of the Survival Mode.
Quote from: Demacus on August 09, 2011, 07:10:05 PM
I didn't take locations into consideration, mostly cause when I came up with it, there were no aspect cards, so there really wasn't any real reason to use most homebases, since Teamworks, Venture, attack shifting, ect, ect, didn't apply. But I see no reason why you couldn't use a homebase team if you really like a particular line up, that being the case, I would allow for the homebase's Aspect in ONE of the 4 decks, with the Any Homebase Aspect, being like the Any Character specials, not being allowed. Could really change your strategy, based on knowing which of your characters has that 1 extra UMPH, that may, or may not make the difference of the Survival Mode.
True. All in all, I like this idea a lot. A lot a lot. I think I'll see if my brother or Ranerdar will amuse me and give it a go. Thanks for the tip!
Sure thing. :D
This sounds like it could be a ton of fun!
I had thought about something like this when I was in high school - the main difference was you had your team of 3 and a reserve line (sub in in order) - everone's specials were already mixed into the deck - the only positive stipulation was that if you drew a special for someone in the sub reserve spots you could skip there card with no penalty to be short cards in your hand.....but I never play tested with anyone other than my brother......and we both cheated back then ::) so I'm sure it failed miserably.....
Quote from: Jesse on March 13, 2012, 08:23:02 AM
This sounds like it could be a ton of fun!
I had thought about something like this when I was in high school - the main difference was you had your team of 3 and a reserve line (sub in in order) - everone's specials were already mixed into the deck - the only positive stipulation was that if you drew a special for someone in the sub reserve spots you could skip there card with no penalty to be short cards in your hand.....but I never play tested with anyone other than my brother......and we both cheated back then ::) so I'm sure it failed miserably.....
this sounds like it could be a lot of fun! I actually forgot all about this concept; I never got around to trying this out. I'll have to bring this up today with my brother and see if anyone wants to give it a shot :)
Quote from: ncannelora on March 13, 2012, 11:11:39 AM
this sounds like it could be a lot of fun! I actually forgot all about this concept; I never got around to trying this out. I'll have to bring this up today with my brother and see if anyone wants to give it a shot :)
Awesome - if you get around to doing it, let me know how it works out and possibly what format you guys used.
I have a suggestion for the surviving team. If you won all 7 mission, you should be able to venture missions from the completed pile to remove damage from characters. This would only work if there were no missions in the defeated pile. (Or perhaps a 2nd set of missions should be added to the reserve pile leaving the 7 in the completed pile to keep track.)
Also if placed cards and 'deck status' remain the same for the winning team when going up against the second new team then the power pack should only be reshuffled once and then after that is played through the whole deck gets reshuffled events and all. KO'ed character remain KO'ed so the deck still suffers from unusables, but resurrections specials potentially become cooler.
Quote from: Nostalgic on March 13, 2012, 12:41:24 PM
I have a suggestion for the surviving team. If you won all 7 mission, you should be able to venture missions from the completed pile to remove damage from characters. This would only work if there were no missions in the defeated pile. (Or perhaps a 2nd set of missions should be added to the reserve pile leaving the 7 in the completed pile to keep track.)
Also if placed cards and 'deck status' remain the same for the winning team when going up against the second new team then the power pack should only be reshuffled once and then after that is played through the whole deck gets reshuffled events and all. KO'ed character remain KO'ed so the deck still suffers from unusables, but resurrections specials potentially become cooler.
I really like the idea of healing folks with a Mission advantage - I'll see if I can work out some details for that.
As for the deck reshuffling, I just don't know. Seems like that might make it too possible for a single deck to take down all 3 decks... I really like the idea of inviting a bit of a volley.
At this point, it's all untested, so I might go the simplest route possible, then look to add or subtract elements later.
Quote from: ncannelora on March 13, 2012, 03:04:09 PM
At this point, it's all untested, so I might go the simplest route possible, then look to add or subtract elements later.
That's how I would approach it. Man, I am glad I stumbled upon this this morning. I am definitely going to give this a shot soon!
I had an idea a few years back for an 'Endurance Tournament' which I thought might be fun.
All participants show up and register 4 decks. Each deck must be unique with no duplication of characters or battlesites. Only 1 of the decks may be an Any Hero deck.
As the swiss rounds progress, and characters are killed, they are removed from the player's overall roster for the day.
Each player takes what is left of their 4 decks and must now reconstruct a new team for the finals using the survivors. If they are unable to build a legal team, they are out.
All players with valid teams play in the finals, each round rebuilding and pairing off until no one can make a tournament legal deck. Last man standing wins!
I haven't drawn up the full details, but I thought it might be an interesting (and Challenging!) day for even the heartiest of players.
-BBH
That would be very challenging indeed, BBH! Sounds like it could be quite fun. I wonder how that would affect deck size... seems like maybe having slightly bigger decks would help some flexibility as you reconstruct... very interesting!
Quote from: ncannelora on March 13, 2012, 03:04:09 PM
Quote from: Nostalgic on March 13, 2012, 12:41:24 PM
I have a suggestion for the surviving team. If you won all 7 mission, you should be able to venture missions from the completed pile to remove damage from characters. This would only work if there were no missions in the defeated pile. (Or perhaps a 2nd set of missions should be added to the reserve pile leaving the 7 in the completed pile to keep track.)
Also if placed cards and 'deck status' remain the same for the winning team when going up against the second new team then the power pack should only be reshuffled once and then after that is played through the whole deck gets reshuffled events and all. KO'ed character remain KO'ed so the deck still suffers from unusables, but resurrections specials potentially become cooler.
I really like the idea of healing folks with a Mission advantage - I'll see if I can work out some details for that.
As for the deck reshuffling, I just don't know. Seems like that might make it too possible for a single deck to take down all 3 decks... I really like the idea of inviting a bit of a volley.
At this point, it's all untested, so I might go the simplest route possible, then look to add or subtract elements later.
Thought about it some and to expand on the "missions healing" idea there could be 2 mission piles. If a team has already defeated one team, through winning 7 missions, these missions would stay in completed and 7 more mission cards would be added to the reserve pile. You still venture as normal but any missions ventured and won from the 'special' completed pile remove one hit from any character's permanent record. If ventured from this pile, regardless if a mission is won or lost, that mission is removed from the game afterwards and these cards never count towards winning the 7 missions needed to beat the new team.
A few things to note.
A)Regardless of which pile cards are ventured from the same penalty applies for venturing more than 2 missions. (I also don't think you should be able to venture more than 2 missions from the special pile at a time and one mission must always be ventured from the 'regular' mission piles.)
B.)If a team wins by KOing their opponents instead of winning 7 missions they won't be able to take advantage of this.
C.)You still have to weigh winning missions to survive ;)/heal your characters vs winning missions to win the game.
D.) Since your deck is in the same position it was from last game trying to survive to and through your power pack to get the proverbial 'new lease on life' effect would be an interesting test
Perhaps a 'penalty' for battlesite decks is that only once
all specials under the battlesite are used do they get 'reset'. So basically if you've defeated a team and are in the second game, played through your deack and the power pack once, and reshuffled everything, you would have 'dead' activators in your hand until you play every special under the battlesite so that they all can be used again.
Quote from: BigBadHarve on March 13, 2012, 05:17:45 PM
Each player takes what is left of their 4 decks and must now reconstruct a new team for the finals using the survivors. If they are unable to build a legal team, they are out.
All players with valid teams play in the finals, each round rebuilding and pairing off until no one can make a tournament legal deck. Last man standing wins!
I really like this idea overall - I think the only thing that would worry me would be who was left. Say 2 players are left to face each other, 1 can build a legal team, but the other has all 4 of his powerhouses left and cannot build a team so he must forfeit :-\ Its literally the only negative that I can think of - its almost a "catch 22" Yeah you played good, but you're team that is left is too good so you lose....... ;)
Quote from: Jesse on March 14, 2012, 05:46:01 AM
Quote from: BigBadHarve on March 13, 2012, 05:17:45 PM
Each player takes what is left of their 4 decks and must now reconstruct a new team for the finals using the survivors. If they are unable to build a legal team, they are out.
All players with valid teams play in the finals, each round rebuilding and pairing off until no one can make a tournament legal deck. Last man standing wins!
I really like this idea overall - I think the only thing that would worry me would be who was left. Say 2 players are left to face each other, 1 can build a legal team, but the other has all 4 of his powerhouses left and cannot build a team so he must forfeit :-\ Its literally the only negative that I can think of - its almost a "catch 22" Yeah you played good, but you're team that is left is too good so you lose....... ;)
I don't see that as a downside, that's part of the strategy. If you use expensive characters you need to ensure that the inexpensive characters survive otherwise you could be screwed for finals. Likewise, playing against an opponent with expensive characters, you need to weigh the short term goal with the long term goal. If you can take out his 'balance' characters, you essentially take out the high priced characters in the end game.
Beyonder teams and players using KO events could really be in trouble. Conversely, we'd probably start seeing more defensive teams to keep everyone alive.
Like I said, I'd need to actually sit down and lay it out. It's still just in the idea phase.
-BBH
Quote from: BigBadHarve on March 14, 2012, 10:39:16 AM
Quote from: Jesse on March 14, 2012, 05:46:01 AM
Quote from: BigBadHarve on March 13, 2012, 05:17:45 PM
Each player takes what is left of their 4 decks and must now reconstruct a new team for the finals using the survivors. If they are unable to build a legal team, they are out.
All players with valid teams play in the finals, each round rebuilding and pairing off until no one can make a tournament legal deck. Last man standing wins!
I really like this idea overall - I think the only thing that would worry me would be who was left. Say 2 players are left to face each other, 1 can build a legal team, but the other has all 4 of his powerhouses left and cannot build a team so he must forfeit :-\ Its literally the only negative that I can think of - its almost a "catch 22" Yeah you played good, but you're team that is left is too good so you lose....... ;)
I don't see that as a downside, that's part of the strategy. If you use expensive characters you need to ensure that the inexpensive characters survive otherwise you could be screwed for finals. Likewise, playing against an opponent with expensive characters, you need to weigh the short term goal with the long term goal. If you can take out his 'balance' characters, you essentially take out the high priced characters in the end game.
Beyonder teams and players using KO events could really be in trouble. Conversely, we'd probably start seeing more defensive teams to keep everyone alive.
Like I said, I'd need to actually sit down and lay it out. It's still just in the idea phase.
-BBH
Well when you word it like that, I like it ::) I am definitely in favor of Beyonder teams having some issues and it could very much bring forth David and Goliath deck choices - do you want higher priced tougher characers with potential end game problems or do you want lower priced characters that may or may not be tough enough to stand alone, but will definitely make you legal at the end of the game.....
.....sounds like a pretty crafty idea.
I do like the idea of the Endurance match-up. Great concept. If you need help shaping it, let us know where you are unclear. :D
Quote from: BigBadHarve on March 13, 2012, 05:17:45 PM
I had an idea a few years back for an 'Endurance Tournament' which I thought might be fun.
All participants show up and register 4 decks. Each deck must be unique with no duplication of characters or battlesites. Only 1 of the decks may be an Any Hero deck.
As the swiss rounds progress, and characters are killed, they are removed from the player's overall roster for the day.
Each player takes what is left of their 4 decks and must now reconstruct a new team for the finals using the survivors. If they are unable to build a legal team, they are out.
All players with valid teams play in the finals, each round rebuilding and pairing off until no one can make a tournament legal deck. Last man standing wins!
I haven't drawn up the full details, but I thought it might be an interesting (and Challenging!) day for even the heartiest of players.
-BBH
Actually thinking about trying this next week. My friend that I taught last week wants to do this - my only issue will be having enough cards to build 4 or so teams for each of us! If it pans out, I will let you guys know how it goes.....and yes BBH even with my little bit of nay saying, I think I am hitting around your endurance style as opposed to my original thought from back in the day....