What about simply making basic universe, training, or tactic cards used for an attack or defense considered "draw one card discard if duplicate" cards? It's simple, it takes care of the card advantage issue, and I don't think it would break the game's mechanics. Any problems you guys see with this from a tactical, or game mechanic point of view?
Like you said, it takes care of the card advantage issue. Mojoworld Aspect card had a similar effect: "For remainder of game, Mojoworld's team may draw 1 card from top of Draw Pile immediately after playing any Basic Universe card. Discard if duplicate." It doesn't work as an aspect card because you cannot be sure that you will play that card before you draw a couple universe cards. But I think it would work as a general rule.
I like that idea and I've used it in many of my homemade cards. I also saw a couple Homemades by CCTelander using the same concept. The only problem I see is that it allows a player to get access to his cards much more quickly, since you draw additional cards every time you play those cards.
Quote from: Bios on June 06, 2010, 09:02:44 PM
Like you said, it takes care of the card advantage issue. Mojoworld Aspect card had a similar effect: "For remainder of game, Mojoworld's team may draw 1 card from top of Draw Pile immediately after playing any Basic Universe card. Discard if duplicate." It doesn't work as an aspect card because you cannot be sure that you will play that card before you draw a couple universe cards. But I think it would work as a general rule.
If you really wanted to make Basic Universe, Training and Double Shot Cards usable, this is a very good way to do it.
Anyone who is familiar with the New England OP System might remember that their rules allowed you to draw a card to replace a played card once per battle, under certain circumstances. That worked out well for making BU, Training, DS and other cards that produce limited or weak effects and cause you to lose card advantage by playing them more useful.
IMO it just isn't worth the effort for BU, Training and Double Shot Cards. They don't produce any effect that can't be had with other, better cards, and even if you allow a draw to replace you're still better off using those other cards.
We consider BU, Training and DS Crads to be ill-conceived cards right from the start, and really see no reason to even try to make them more useful. I could see doing it just for the fun of it, but it doesn't really add anything worthwhile to the game.
Quote from: Bios on June 06, 2010, 09:02:44 PM
I like that idea and I've used it in many of my homemade cards. I also saw a couple Homemades by CCTelander using the same concept. The only problem I see is that it allows a player to get access to his cards much more quickly, since you draw additional cards every time you play those cards.
In our environment this isn't a problem at all for a number of reasons.
First, virtually every strategy has certain cards that allow you a DTR (Draw to Replace). So the "advantage" is spread out fairly evenly.
Second, we play with a larger minimum deck requirement. Our min deck size is a flat 65 cards. With larger decks you can use more different cards, it tends to minimize the danger of duplication, and the DTRs don't really give you a significant advantage. It helps that in our environment there are actions you can take during a battle that don't require you to actually play a card too, such as removing counters to produce certain effect etc., so there are ways to mitigate against any card advantage an opponent might get by playing a lot of DTRs.
Another thing that helps is that in our environment there are actually cases where min/maxing your deck to the minimum number of cards actually makes it less effective. I know that seems counterintuitive, but in actual practice that's exactly how it works out in some cases.
As examples, our Spying/Deception and Venture Manipulation Strategies rely upon having a LOT of Specials available revolving around those specific strategies. But they don't rely on any PARTICULAR Specials, almost any Spying or Venture Manipulation Special is as good as another for the purposes of making the decks work.
In both cases these decks stand up exceptionally well against Legacy Style decks that are ruthlessly min/maxed to our min 65 cards, even though some of the Spying and Venture Manip decks hover in the neighborhood of 75-80 cards.
You'd have to actually play them to really get the feel for what I'm trying to convey, but that's been our experience.
Great comments guys, and just the feed back I was looking for. I get the fact that the those cards ill-conceived, but there is something about playing str8 power card combined with a 'city bus' b.u. that just makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside. :-) Just watch the Doomsday vs Superman or World War Hulk animated movies. I'll noodle on it some more, but I think you're right.
I've really been into the homemade cards. The only way I know to get them is to copy, paste, and make them bigger. Though the text is a little blurry, they are still great fun. I also like the various strategies that are developing. I've got a pretty good burn deck using blob, super scroll, absorbing man, and scorpion. Me and my OP partner since 95 recently started playing again and wanted to do a string of linked games based on the classic good vs evil concept. I'm playing all villain teams and he's playing the heros. We've never been 'hardcore' competative. In fact our decks are usually between 80-100 cards.
Quote from: Nostalgic on June 09, 2010, 09:53:14 AM
Great comments guys, and just the feed back I was looking for. I get the fact that the those cards ill-conceived, but there is something about playing str8 power card combined with a 'city bus' b.u. that just makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside. :-) Just watch the Doomsday vs Superman or World War Hulk animated movies. I'll noodle on it some more, but I think you're right.
Yeah, I can't deny that there's some kind of ephemeral fun factor involved with using Basic Universe Cards! And hey, who am I to tell anyone else how to have fun?
We don't use 'em around here, but that shouldn't stop anyone from messing with them if they get a kick out of it.
Quote from: Nostalgic on June 09, 2010, 09:53:14 AM
I've really been into the homemade cards. The only way I know to get them is to copy, paste, and make them bigger. Though the text is a little blurry, they are still great fun. I also like the various strategies that are developing. I've got a pretty good burn deck using blob, super scroll, absorbing man, and scorpion. Me and my OP partner since 95 recently started playing again and wanted to do a string of linked games based on the classic good vs evil concept. I'm playing all villain teams and he's playing the heros. We've never been 'hardcore' competative. In fact our decks are usually between 80-100 cards.
Go Blob! My favorite Burn deck that I'm running right now has Blob, Iron Man: Hulkbuster Armor, Super Skrull, Metallo (R). That's right, Metallo! It's Eeeeevil!
Glad you're getting a kick out of the homemades so far. If you like the strategies that have made it to the site so far, you'll probably dig the next 2-3 that are on the way. It may be a few months yet, there are still a few kinks to work out, but they should be a lot of fun. Here's a short preview:
Spying/Deception should be coming online pretty soon. Most of the Specials are already up on the site, we've just been tweaking the Homebase and Aspects a little. This one will make all those "Opponent must reveal "X" cards from Hand" type cards actually playable. It's a really unique strategy that adds a ton of fun elements, or, more accurately, builds on fun elements that already existed in OP but were never very well developed.
Venture Manioulation is a quirky strategy that's pretty much unique to OP, since there really aren't any other CCG/TCGs out there that include the Venture Mechanic. I'm actually running 2 VM decks right now that don't have ANY attacks in the decks at all, and also no Power Cards. It's also possible with VM to build aggressive, attack oriented decks, so the strategy gives you several different options for accomplishing the same end goal. It's a lot of fun, but takes some getting used to.
We just started working on Placement Disruption, so it may be a little while before all the kinks are worked out. But as things stand right now it looks like it could be one of the most devastating strtegies so far. It's also a lot of fun!
One thing I never really understood was the rift or conflict that exists in a lot of gaming circles between people who play for "fun" and those who are more competitive. To me there's no real conflict.
The way I see things is that competition IS fun, but so is just fooling around with some off-the-wall idea that probably would never win a tournament. At the same time though, I've always felt that every character in the game should be able to contribute SOMETHING to a competitive, tournament winning team. I guess in the end I just don't make the same distinction between the two that some people do.
LONG LIVE OP!
Post Merge: July 22, 2011, 04:40:07 PM
Quote from: Nostalgic on June 09, 2010, 09:53:14 AM
Great comments guys, and just the feed back I was looking for. I get the fact that the those cards ill-conceived, but there is something about playing str8 power card combined with a 'city bus' b.u. that just makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside. :-) Just watch the Doomsday vs Superman or World War Hulk animated movies. I'll noodle on it some more, but I think you're right.
I've really been into the homemade cards. The only way I know to get them is to copy, paste, and make them bigger. Though the text is a little blurry, they are still great fun. I also like the various strategies that are developing. I've got a pretty good burn deck using blob, super scroll, absorbing man, and scorpion. Me and my OP partner since 95 recently started playing again and wanted to do a string of linked games based on the classic good vs evil concept. I'm playing all villain teams and he's playing the heros. We've never been 'hardcore' competative. In fact our decks are usually between 80-100 cards.
Another thing I forgot in my last post.
I really like the whole all heroes/all villains thing. Most of the decks I build are done around that paradigm, but I don't consider it a hard and fast rule. Just wanted to mention that too!
Quote from: CCTelander on June 09, 2010, 12:45:49 PM
Go Blob! My favorite Burn deck that I'm running right now has Blob, Iron Man: Hulkbuster Armor, Super Skrull, Metallo (R). That's right, Metallo! It's Eeeeevil!
Glad you're getting a kick out of the homemades so far. If you like the strategies that have made it to the site so far, you'll probably dig the next 2-3 that are on the way. It may be a few months yet, there are still a few kinks to work out, but they should be a lot of fun. Here's a short preview:
Spying/Deception should be coming online pretty soon. Most of the Specials are already up on the site, we've just been tweaking the Homebase and Aspects a little. This one will make all those "Opponent must reveal "X" cards from Hand" type cards actually playable. It's a really unique strategy that adds a ton of fun elements, or, more accurately, builds on fun elements that already existed in OP but were never very well developed.
I have a team with Mr. Sinister and the Kingpin that I am trying to incorporate aspects of that strategy. Related to that I did wonder if you have an xc special and a wn special in play and the opponent is forced to reveal a card, do both specials get to place a counter. ( Hoping the answer is yes.. :))
Quote from: CCTelander
Venture Manioulation is a quirky strategy that's pretty much unique to OP, since there really aren't any other CCG/TCGs out there that include the Venture Mechanic. I'm actually running 2 VM decks right now that don't have ANY attacks in the decks at all, and also no Power Cards. It's also possible with VM to build aggressive, attack oriented decks, so the strategy gives you several different options for accomplishing the same end goal. It's a lot of fun, but takes some getting used to.
No power cards?! This really sounds intriguing. I guess if you had a lot of venture manipulation, solid defense, a character like Longshot or invisible woman, and the Homebase Marvel Universe, you could do some interesting things.
Quote from: CCTelander
One thing I never really understood was the rift or conflict that exists in a lot of gaming circles between people who play for "fun" and those who are more competitive. To me there's no real conflict.
The way I see things is that competition IS fun, but so is just fooling around with some off-the-wall idea that probably would never win a tournament. At the same time though, I've always felt that every character in the game should be able to contribute SOMETHING to a competitive, tournament winning team. I guess in the end I just don't make the same distinction between the two that some people do.
LONG LIVE OP!
I agree on the 'competition is fun' point of view. I just meant we were never into legacy decks. We like to come up with teams, based on comic/ cartoon team ups that happened. My only disappointment in overpower were that some teams couldn't work because of the fundamental game structure of discarding duplicates and the necessity of teams to have similar strengths and weaknesses. So if you wanted to make an X-men team with Wolverine, Storm, Beast and Colossus it of course wouldn't work. It makes me think they should have come up with more homebases for the famous teams with rules similar to Four Freedoms Plaza so they would be practical to use.
Quote from: CCTelander
I really like the whole all heroes/all villains thing. Most of the decks I build are done around that paradigm, but I don't consider it a hard and fast rule. Just wanted to mention that too!
Just out of curiosity, do you use the sum decks rules for deck building for rank 12-16 teams?
Quote from: Nostalgic on June 14, 2010, 02:40:15 PM
Quote from: CCTelander on June 09, 2010, 12:45:49 PM
Go Blob! My favorite Burn deck that I'm running right now has Blob, Iron Man: Hulkbuster Armor, Super Skrull, Metallo (R). That's right, Metallo! It's Eeeeevil!
Glad you're getting a kick out of the homemades so far. If you like the strategies that have made it to the site so far, you'll probably dig the next 2-3 that are on the way. It may be a few months yet, there are still a few kinks to work out, but they should be a lot of fun. Here's a short preview:
Spying/Deception should be coming online pretty soon. Most of the Specials are already up on the site, we've just been tweaking the Homebase and Aspects a little. This one will make all those "Opponent must reveal "X" cards from Hand" type cards actually playable. It's a really unique strategy that adds a ton of fun elements, or, more accurately, builds on fun elements that already existed in OP but were never very well developed.
Quote from: Nostalgic
I have a team with Mr. Sinister and the Kingpin that I am trying to incorporate aspects of that strategy. Related to that I did wonder if you have an xc special and a wn special in play and the opponent is forced to reveal a card, do both specials get to place a counter. ( Hoping the answer is yes.. :))
The intent behind those types of cards is that yes, every single card that specifies that you may Place a counter to it for any particular action gets a counter every time that actions is successful. So, if you had both a WN and an XC in play, and forced your opponent to reveal a card, both would get counters.
However, I really don't want people to feel "locked in" to playing the homemades any particular way. If your play group thinks it's just too heinous to do things the way we do, then by all means adapt the homemades to your own particular style of play. I promise you won't hurt our feelings!
I'm happy to answer any questions regarding what we intended or how we do things, but don't feel like you absolutely HAVE to do it that way. Whatever works for you is fine by us. It's all about having fun with OP.
Quote from: CCTelander
Venture Manioulation is a quirky strategy that's pretty much unique to OP, since there really aren't any other CCG/TCGs out there that include the Venture Mechanic. I'm actually running 2 VM decks right now that don't have ANY attacks in the decks at all, and also no Power Cards. It's also possible with VM to build aggressive, attack oriented decks, so the strategy gives you several different options for accomplishing the same end goal. It's a lot of fun, but takes some getting used to.
Quote from: Nostalgic
No power cards?! This really sounds intriguing. I guess if you had a lot of venture manipulation, solid defense, a character like Longshot or invisible woman, and the Homebase Marvel Universe, you could do some interesting things.
[/quote]
Oh these are some of our favorite decks currently, but we're still in the tweaking stage. They hold up well against most strategies, but when it comes to Rush they fall apart. We definitely don't want that, so we're working on some fixes that should help them have a decent chance of beating Rush decks.
The two decks I'm running right now are Beast, Forge, Professor X, Black Knight (R), and Enchantress, Hellfire Club, Jackal, The Kree (R). They both take a LOT of getting used to before you can even play them worth a darn, but once you actually get into the mindset they're a TON of fun. You definitely need the Homebase (Initiative HQ) and Aspects to pull it off though.
The big problem against Rush decks is that the VM decks rely almost exclusively on Specials for defense, but Rush has a LOT of ways around defensive Specials. We're working on fixes, and it looks like the Bystander Cards will play an important role.
The other big issue is that once your opponent figures out that you have absolutely no attacks in your deck, they never have to worry about defense so they can pull out all the stops. The non-attack decks are capable of dealing with this MOST of the time, but not very well against Rush because of the defense thing.
Even in situations where they work well you absolutely have to think all your plays through very carefully. Playing 1 card out of order or at the wrong time can really hurt you with these decks.
Another neat thing about these kinds of decks is that, because they don't have ANY Power Cards, you can pretty much ignore Power Grids when choosing characters. A LOT of wacky teams are possible.
On the other hand, my best aggressive, attack oriented VM deck right now is Adam Warlock, Jean Grey, Superman KC, Polaris (R). It stands up to Rush decks a LOT better.
Quote from: CCTelander
One thing I never really understood was the rift or conflict that exists in a lot of gaming circles between people who play for "fun" and those who are more competitive. To me there's no real conflict.
The way I see things is that competition IS fun, but so is just fooling around with some off-the-wall idea that probably would never win a tournament. At the same time though, I've always felt that every character in the game should be able to contribute SOMETHING to a competitive, tournament winning team. I guess in the end I just don't make the same distinction between the two that some people do.
LONG LIVE OP!
Quote from: Nostalgic
I agree on the 'competition is fun' point of view. I just meant we were never into legacy decks. We like to come up with teams, based on comic/ cartoon team ups that happened. My only disappointment in overpower were that some teams couldn't work because of the fundamental game structure of discarding duplicates and the necessity of teams to have similar strengths and weaknesses. So if you wanted to make an X-men team with Wolverine, Storm, Beast and Colossus it of course wouldn't work. It makes me think they should have come up with more homebases for the famous teams with rules similar to Four Freedoms Plaza so they would be practical to use.
[/quote]
This was always a REAL challenge for me too. It SHOULD be possible to build decks with mismatched Power Grids that are still successful, since it would more accurately reflect "real" teams in comics. You seldom have a team in comics that is made up of JUST characters with super-strength.
One easy solution to this problem, and one we've actually been implimenting to a degree is to give a LOT more characters "LN" coded Specials (Vertigo). The Shift Mechanic makes it a lot more feasable to build temas with Power Grids that don't match up.
A lot of players back in the day thought Vertigo was broken, or at least too good. We never did. We actually LOVE the card largely BECAUSE it makes it possible to build these kinds of teams. So, expect to see, over time, more characters get LN homemades!
Also, when we get to the Teamwork Strategy we intend to build in a mechanism that IS NOT shifting, but which does allow you to build Teamwork style decks with mismatched Power Grids.
So, with the homemade cards at least, there will be at least 2 different ways to build successful teams around this idea.
Quote from: CCTelander
I really like the whole all heroes/all villains thing. Most of the decks I build are done around that paradigm, but I don't consider it a hard and fast rule. Just wanted to mention that too!
Quote from: Nostalgic
Just out of curiosity, do you use the sum decks rules for deck building for rank 12-16 teams?
[/quote]
You know, we've never really been big fans of the Deck Sum Rule. Back in the day there were lots of REALLY powerful decks that fit easily within it, and lots of totally crappy decks that would be illegal under it. As a way of limiting excessively powerful or "broken" decks it was pretty much a failure.
It also limited the deck variety, since it limited the number of character combinations you could play. The last thing OP needs is anything that further limits variety!
We've considered just dumping the Deck Sum Rule MANY times, but always come up short of actually doing it. It's so much a part of OP that we hesitate.
What we wound up doing is kind of a compromise, and this is where we are today. We use the NEO Cost Capping rules for Legacy Style decks. For any strategy-based decks, the Homebases actually allow you to use any 4 characters from that strat's list of characters, so it's a moot point for those.
It's not a perfect solution, but it's one we can live with, at least for now.
Quote from: CCTelander on June 14, 2010, 03:58:34 PM
Quote from: Nostalgic
I agree on the 'competition is fun' point of view. I just meant we were never into legacy decks. We like to come up with teams, based on comic/ cartoon team ups that happened. My only disappointment in overpower were that some teams couldn't work because of the fundamental game structure of discarding duplicates and the necessity of teams to have similar strengths and weaknesses. So if you wanted to make an X-men team with Wolverine, Storm, Beast and Colossus it of course wouldn't work. It makes me think they should have come up with more homebases for the famous teams with rules similar to Four Freedoms Plaza so they would be practical to use.
This was always a REAL challenge for me too. It SHOULD be possible to build decks with mismatched Power Grids that are still successful, since it would more accurately reflect "real" teams in comics. You seldom have a team in comics that is made up of JUST characters with super-strength.
I really love CCTelander ideas, specially the ones about strategy. I always thought that it should be possible to build teams based in "real" teams from comics. The way I found to deal with those issues was creating homebases that allow some sort of Power Grid manipulation. Take for example my "Stark Enterprises" HB, its inherent ability says that the team's Strength Power Grid is 8 for defense. Since no characters from that HB have a rating of 8, the team offesinve power is limited, but the inherent ability pretty much helps to hold up against any other team.
I also think that Homebases are a good way to deal with the Sum deck rule. Our "DC Universe" Homebase allows teams with a Power grid sum up to 80 points, with a penalty that is not prohibitive: "Opponent's team is +2 to Venture Total per battle for each 2 points over 76 in the Sum Grid of DCU's team."
Those cards are available at http://phillipgs.virtuaserver.com.br/overpower/ . You can check any cards using the "build a deck" tool or look for specials by code or character using the "find special" tool.
Chris, is there another way to check the homemades in your website? I really love your work, but we have to open a link and then search for the cards wich are in the middle of the page and then search for another link to check another character. Maybe you could place a "next page" buttom just after the cards.
Quote from: Bios on June 15, 2010, 08:51:00 AM
Those cards are available at http://phillipgs.virtuaserver.com.br/overpower/ . You can check any cards using the "build a deck" tool or look for specials by code or character using the "find special" tool.
One word... AWSOME!
Okay more words...
Why couldn't the designers see the game like you guys do with the homemades? I first looked up my two favorites, Wolverine and the Hulk, and was quite pleased. I mean making the healing factor 'remove one hit' (Instantaneous) or the snik a 'draw 3', or even the adamantium skeleton an attack or defensive card just makes sense. Of course the 'best at what I do' special is a homerun! Good job!
Quote from: Nostalgic on June 15, 2010, 02:47:11 PM
Why couldn't the designers see the game like you guys do with the homemades?
I think that CCTelander and I have the same "modus operandi". We spend more time planning than making the cards and we do lots of test playing before approving an idea.
Despite the fact that the original designers did some test playing, I don't believe that they paid much attention to that. Otherwise, how we can explain that specials like "draw 3 cards" were released as non-OPD or that most of the homebases, even the latest ones don't work at all?
Sometimes I dream if OP could ever be officially released again and how things could be better if a homemaker had the opportunity to work with the game.
Quote from: Bios on June 15, 2010, 08:51:00 AM
Quote from: CCTelander on June 14, 2010, 03:58:34 PM
Quote from: Nostalgic
I agree on the 'competition is fun' point of view. I just meant we were never into legacy decks. We like to come up with teams, based on comic/ cartoon team ups that happened. My only disappointment in overpower were that some teams couldn't work because of the fundamental game structure of discarding duplicates and the necessity of teams to have similar strengths and weaknesses. So if you wanted to make an X-men team with Wolverine, Storm, Beast and Colossus it of course wouldn't work. It makes me think they should have come up with more homebases for the famous teams with rules similar to Four Freedoms Plaza so they would be practical to use.
This was always a REAL challenge for me too. It SHOULD be possible to build decks with mismatched Power Grids that are still successful, since it would more accurately reflect "real" teams in comics. You seldom have a team in comics that is made up of JUST characters with super-strength.
I really love CCTelander ideas, specially the ones about strategy.
[/quote]
Thanks man! I appreciate the kind words.
Quote from: Bios
I always thought that it should be possible to build teams based in "real" teams from comics. The way I found to deal with those issues was creating homebases that allow some sort of Power Grid manipulation. Take for example my "Stark Enterprises" HB, its inherent ability says that the team's Strength Power Grid is 8 for defense. Since no characters from that HB have a rating of 8, the team offesinve power is limited, but the inherent ability pretty much helps to hold up against any other team.
Yeah, being able to build "comic realistic" teams was never one of OP's strong areas. The best available was the FF, and then people complained endlessly about it!
That's always been one of the areas that we wanted to address with the homemade cards. And there are some really cool things coming in that area before too awful long.
Quote from: Bios
I also think that Homebases are a good way to deal with the Sum deck rule. Our "DC Universe" Homebase allows teams with a Power grid sum up to 80 points, with a penalty that is not prohibitive: "Opponent's team is +2 to Venture Total per battle for each 2 points over 76 in the Sum Grid of DCU's team."
Those cards are available at http://phillipgs.virtuaserver.com.br/overpower/ . You can check any cards using the "build a deck" tool or look for specials by code or character using the "find special" tool.
Let me once again compliment you on your homemade cards. They definitely are among the best I've seen!
Quote from: Bios
Chris, is there another way to check the homemades in your website? I really love your work, but we have to open a link and then search for the cards wich are in the middle of the page and then search for another link to check another character. Maybe you could place a "next page" buttom just after the cards.
Thanks again!
I'm open to any suggestions anyone might have to make the site more user friendly. I've thought about adding a "Comprehensive Galleries" section that would at least have all of a particular character's cards on one page. My concern is that it may take a while to DL for anyone lacking broadband service.
And, just to be clear, my web design skills aren't exactly what I'd call professional grade. I'll happily listen to ideas, but I may lack the skill to impliment them, at least for the time being.
Post Merge: July 22, 2011, 01:40:29 PM
Quote from: Nostalgic on June 15, 2010, 02:47:11 PM
Quote from: Bios on June 15, 2010, 08:51:00 AM
Those cards are available at http://phillipgs.virtuaserver.com.br/overpower/ . You can check any cards using the "build a deck" tool or look for specials by code or character using the "find special" tool.
One word... AWSOME!
Okay more words...
Why couldn't the designers see the game like you guys do with the homemades?
Just to be fair to the guys who actually designed OP originally, the conditions they were working under were somewhat less than ideal. Marvel had no end of problems back in those days, and the designers were forced to work in a situation that probably really curtailed their efforts.
There never was a consistent design team. Sometimes there were several people doing the design work, and at other times it was down to just one guy.
Plus, keep in mind that back then the whole idea of CCG/TCGs was a new idea. there were bound to be some mistakes made. But there were also at least moments of pure genius too.
Quote from: Nostalgic
I first looked up my two favorites, Wolverine and the Hulk, and was quite pleased. I mean making the healing factor 'remove one hit' (Instantaneous) or the snik a 'draw 3', or even the adamantium skeleton an attack or defensive card just makes sense. Of course the 'best at what I do' special is a homerun! Good job!
Yeah, you can put me down as one of Bios' biggest fans too!
LONG LIVE OP!
Post Merge: July 22, 2011, 04:40:55 PM
Quote from: Bios on June 15, 2010, 09:43:15 PM
Quote from: Nostalgic on June 15, 2010, 02:47:11 PM
Why couldn't the designers see the game like you guys do with the homemades?
I think that CCTelander and I have the same "modus operandi". We spend more time planning than making the cards and we do lots of test playing before approving an idea.
You're definitely right about this. The ideas we've been implimenting are actually the result of almost 10 years worth of planning and brainstorming. My main OP Bud Rob and I have been doing most of the work, but several other of our OP Buds have contributed ideas and helped here and there with play testing.
We actually have several additional ideas for new strategies that we haven't included yet because we just can't figure a way, yet, to get them to work without making massive changes to the basic OP structure, which is something we don't want to do. That would make it, essentially, a different game and we don't want a different game. We want OP at its best!
Quote from: Bios
Despite the fact that the original designers did some test playing, I don't believe that they paid much attention to that. Otherwise, how we can explain that specials like "draw 3 cards" were released as non-OPD or that most of the homebases, even the latest ones don't work at all?
I don't claim to have any inside info or anything like that, but back in the day there was a LOT of information about what was going on at Marvel available on the net. OP suffered from Marvel's situation at the time, a lot. Many times OP wouldn't get the support it needed from Marvel just because they were in such dire straits themselves.
In the end OP was kind of a victim of circumstances.
Quote from: Bios
Sometimes I dream if OP could ever be officially released again and how things could be better if a homemaker had the opportunity to work with the game.
This would probably be the best thing that could ever happen to OP. But realistically speaking it's probably just a pipe dream.
I was also disappointed when my brother realized these cards were pretty much always a waste of a card in one's hand. The game mechanic suggested in this thread's opening post would definitely add an interesting twist, and I think definitely put favor on the side on whoever has the most universe cards - unless of course they kill it with doubles.
But to be completely honest I have always found training cards to be much less utterly-useless than, say, basic universe cards. They give a +4 (which means suddenly a 1 can defend a heckuva lot of stuff) and also give you the option of 2 power types, so you have at least a 50% chance of your power card type aligning (rather than 25% with BU), and that percentage obviously increases greatly when you consider multi- and any-power power cards (though of course only the 5 any-power would be usable with a training card).
I can't blame anyone for being skeptical about the usefulness of training cards (particularly given the clear uselessness of BUs), but the fact is we're all going to draw doubles here and there anyway, and I think having one or two training cards is a nice way to break that up a little. My brother is very strict with never having any of these kinds of universe cards in his deck, but there have been numerous occasions on which my having that training card in my hand saved the battle for me. There are just so many ways this card can come in handy that you don't expect until the moment arrives, that I think having one or two in a deck is always a good idea.
Did no one else even think training cards are at least better than BUs?
Quote from: Karmanal of Zert on June 18, 2010, 12:58:16 AM
I was also disappointed when my brother realized these cards were pretty much always a waste of a card in one's hand. The game mechanic suggested in this thread's opening post would definitely add an interesting twist, and I think definitely put favor on the side on whoever has the most universe cards - unless of course they kill it with doubles.
But to be completely honest I have always found training cards to be much less utterly-useless than, say, basic universe cards. They give a +4 (which means suddenly a 1 can defend a heckuva lot of stuff) and also give you the option of 2 power types, so you have at least a 50% chance of your power card type aligning (rather than 25% with BU), and that percentage obviously increases greatly when you consider multi- and any-power power cards (though of course only the 5 any-power would be usable with a training card).
I can't blame anyone for being skeptical about the usefulness of training cards (particularly given the clear uselessness of BUs), but the fact is we're all going to draw doubles here and there anyway, and I think having one or two training cards is a nice way to break that up a little. My brother is very strict with never having any of these kinds of universe cards in his deck, but there have been numerous occasions on which my having that training card in my hand saved the battle for me. There are just so many ways this card can come in handy that you don't expect until the moment arrives, that I think having one or two in a deck is always a good idea.
Did no one else even think training cards are at least better than BUs?
I can't really argue with your last comment.
However, in our environment BU, Training and Double Shots simply don't fill any role that can't be filled better by some other card.
They could be fun to mess around with, but we're not really interested in resurrecting them from their well-deserved grave.
If you like 'em, by all means have fun with 'em! We've just chosen not to bother.
Post Merge: July 22, 2011, 04:39:23 PM
Quote from: Bios on June 15, 2010, 08:51:00 AM
Chris, is there another way to check the homemades in your website? I really love your work, but we have to open a link and then search for the cards wich are in the middle of the page and then search for another link to check another character. Maybe you could place a "next page" buttom just after the cards.
I meant to ask you about this in an earlier post, but forgot.
Do you mean a link that would just take you to the next gallery in whatever set you were browsing? That woulkd be easy to do, but I'm not sure how much help it would be.
I certainly don't expect to change anyone's mind regarding the use of training cards, but I am highly curious as to what you're referring to when you say they "don't fill any role that can't be filled better by some other card". I'm not aware of any special or other type of card that would perform the same function but better, were you referring to a specific type(s) of card or did you just mean generally speaking it's better to have a different, better card in one's deck? My brother and I are equally strict in never having a single BU, ally, or double-shot card in our decks, but while he also abides by the strict no-trainings-rule, I do not. Just last night I was able to defend the initial (6) strike from a teamwork attack with a 2 energy which wound up giving me the battle (I still had a 6 or 7 in hand and had ventured more than one) and changed the momentum of the game so that for the first time I finally beat him with the decks we're currently playing with (him: Dr. Strange, Captain Mar-Vell, Omega Red, Morph [MC]; me: Brainiac, Riddler, Lex Luthor, Penguin). He's as strict as it seems everyone else here is about the use of trainings, so I figured I'd just point out that that didn't stop him from getting his butt whooped with a training card. ;D
Quote from: Karmanal of Zert on June 19, 2010, 06:14:27 PM
I certainly don't expect to change anyone's mind regarding the use of training cards, but I am highly curious as to what you're referring to when you say they "don't fill any role that can't be filled better by some other card". I'm not aware of any special or other type of card that would perform the same function but better, were you referring to a specific type(s) of card or did you just mean generally speaking it's better to have a different, better card in one's deck? My brother and I are equally strict in never having a single BU, ally, or double-shot card in our decks, but while he also abides by the strict no-trainings-rule, I do not. Just last night I was able to defend the initial (6) strike from a teamwork attack with a 2 energy which wound up giving me the battle (I still had a 6 or 7 in hand and had ventured more than one) and changed the momentum of the game so that for the first time I finally beat him with the decks we're currently playing with (him: Dr. Strange, Captain Mar-Vell, Omega Red, Morph [MC]; me: Brainiac, Riddler, Lex Luthor, Penguin). He's as strict as it seems everyone else here is about the use of trainings, so I figured I'd just point out that that didn't stop him from getting his butt whooped with a training card. ;D
Okay, basically here's what I mean.
The purpose of BU, Training, and, to a more limited degree Double Shot Cards is to augment either an attack or a defensive action. But they only do so under limited circumstances, and with Double Shots the limitations are so severe as to render the cards completely useless.
If you need a BIG attack, you're always better off using a Special that acts as a big attack. If you need good defense, Avoids, Negates, regular Power Cards and level 0 Power Cards all do the job better and more efficiently than BU and Training Cards.
In your example you could have defended that initial Teamwork attack with an Avoid, saving your level 2 Energy PC to attack later. You could have used an "EB" coded Special avoiding ALL of the attack from that Teamwork and, having had the option of forcing your opponent to discard a Placed Teamwork if that had been to your advantage. You could have used a level 6 PC and again saved your off-ability Energy PC to attack later, possibly contributing to a Spectrum KO.
In every one of these cases and more you'd have been better off NOT using a Training card to augment your defense.
But hey, I'd never tell anyone not to use them if they get a kick out of them. If you like 'em, use 'em! We just consider them pointless, so we don't. At some point in the future we may decide that they'd be fun to play around with again, who knows?
Your reasoning is sound and convincing. Unfortunately for me and my all-DC decks I've been fiddling around with lately, there isn't a whole lot of strategic defense to be coordinated. Brainiac has an Avoid and a Negate, neither of which are in my deck because (as I'm sure you know) a character-specific Avoid is more often than not wasted because a different character is being attacked that battle and Brainiac's Negate is VERY unfortunately also character-specific so you run into the same problems. I do have an any-hero Avoid as well as an any-hero Negate in my deck, it probably would be wise to add the any-hero Teamwork Avoid too, but as again I'm sure you know these any-hero cards are all One-Per-Deck, so that's not really something to build one's whole defensive strategy around. I went awhile building decks with no Trainings, and since I decided to take a chance on them again I haven't had any reason to want to take them out. Again I only will have one or two in a deck. I look at it as being guaranteed one less double, though I realize that's not necessarily true. I used to accept the logical reasons for leaving them out but in practice with a card game that inherently has a lot to do with pure, random chance, a +4 comes in handy quite often. I do find your argument convincing and will give this more thought when constructing future decks depending on my chosen characters' defensive capabilities, but for my current deck as mentioned in the above post I'm not sure what I would replace the Trainings with to boost my defense. Any suggestions would be welcome!
Quote from: Karmanal of Zert on June 19, 2010, 07:27:03 PM
Your reasoning is sound and convincing. Unfortunately for me and my all-DC decks I've been fiddling around with lately, there isn't a whole lot of strategic defense to be coordinated. Brainiac has an Avoid and a Negate, neither of which are in my deck because (as I'm sure you know) a character-specific Avoid is more often than not wasted because a different character is being attacked that battle and Brainiac's Negate is VERY unfortunately also character-specific so you run into the same problems. I do have an any-hero Avoid as well as an any-hero Negate in my deck, it probably would be wise to add the any-hero Teamwork Avoid too, but as again I'm sure you know these any-hero cards are all One-Per-Deck, so that's not really something to build one's whole defensive strategy around. I went awhile building decks with no Trainings, and since I decided to take a chance on them again I haven't had any reason to want to take them out. Again I only will have one or two in a deck. I look at it as being guaranteed one less double, though I realize that's not necessarily true. I used to accept the logical reasons for leaving them out but in practice with a card game that inherently has a lot to do with pure, random chance, a +4 comes in handy quite often. I do find your argument convincing and will give this more thought when constructing future decks depending on my chosen characters' defensive capabilities, but for my current deck as mentioned in the above post I'm not sure what I would replace the Trainings with to boost my defense. Any suggestions would be welcome!
All good points. DC is kind of limited and definitely got the short end of the stick power-wise when compared to the Marvel sets. JLA was a bit better, but still sub-par as compared to Marvel.
I'd definitely add the Confusion. I'd also consider adding a Battlesite, probably The Outback since it gives you the most defensive bang for your buck when limited to only the officially released cards. Of course, adding a Marvel Battlesite to a DC deck will requie that you use deck protectors, but I never considered this to be a big problem.
Other than that there's not much you can do short of diving into the world of homemade cards. Mine or Bios' both offer a lot of additional solutions to many of the challenges that existed in "official" OP.
Above all though, have fun!
LONG LIVE OP!
I just had a thought that seems so obvious I wonder why I never thought of this before...
Wouldn't it make both BUs and Trainings much more useful if the bonus was added to damage and Venture? Has anyone tried playing like this before?
Quote from: Karmanal of Zert on June 19, 2010, 06:14:27 PM
My brother and I are equally strict in never having a single BU, ally, or double-shot card in our decks, but while he also abides by the strict no-trainings-rule, I do not. Just last night I was able to defend the initial (6) strike from a teamwork attack with a 2 energy which wound up giving me the battle (I still had a 6 or 7 in hand and had ventured more than one) and changed the momentum of the game so that for the first time I finally beat him with the decks we're currently playing with (him: Dr. Strange, Captain Mar-Vell, Omega Red, Morph [MC]; me: Brainiac, Riddler, Lex Luthor, Penguin). He's as strict as it seems everyone else here is about the use of trainings, so I figured I'd just point out that that didn't stop him from getting his butt whooped with a training card. ;D
Not sure why you don't use ally cards. I actually like ally cards as I think they allow you to maintain momentum while playing a special that is not attack related like a heal card or a venture manipulation card.
There are several other factors that affect the fesability of playing that training card you mentioned in that situation. For instance I was wondering, how many cards you both had left in your hands, what had already be played, what had been discarded, what was placed, what hits were already on your characters, was it an early battle or later battle (near power pack/all mission near completion)... By the way, all those various considerations are part of why I love overpower. 8) If your bro was playing a 7 to use teamwork and the next two attacks, say a multipower 4 and 5, were +2 that extra card used to block the initial attack might leave you with limited options or defense. Also, omega red has one of the specials that makes you defend a power card twice so this could also affect your options if it happended to be placed. My only point is that from a strategic standpoint it still comes down to more resrictive circumstances for when the card is useful. However, if said cards were allowed to be placed on location cards with a draw to replace... ;)
Post Merge: July 22, 2011, 04:39:32 PM
Couple of posts I wanted to reply/question...
Quote from: CCTelander
What we wound up doing is kind of a compromise, and this is where we are today. We use the NEO Cost Capping rules for Legacy Style decks. For any strategy-based decks, the Homebases actually allow you to use any 4 characters from that strat's list of characters, so it's a moot point for those.
It's not a perfect solution, but it's one we can live with, at least for now.
I'm not familiar with the NEO system or their rules for cost capping. Is there a link or place I can look at those?
Quote from: CCTelander
Another thing that helps is that in our environment there are actually cases where min/maxing your deck to the minimum number of cards actually makes it less effective. I know that seems counterintuitive, but in actual practice that's exactly how it works out in some cases.
I just wanted to say I think that's GREAT!
Quote from: Nostalgic on June 21, 2010, 06:27:02 PM
Couple of posts I wanted to reply/question...
Quote from: CCTelander
What we wound up doing is kind of a compromise, and this is where we are today. We use the NEO Cost Capping rules for Legacy Style decks. For any strategy-based decks, the Homebases actually allow you to use any 4 characters from that strat's list of characters, so it's a moot point for those.
It's not a perfect solution, but it's one we can live with, at least for now.
I'm not familiar with the NEO system or their rules for cost capping. Is there a link or place I can look at those?
Quote from: CCTelander
Another thing that helps is that in our environment there are actually cases where min/maxing your deck to the minimum number of cards actually makes it less effective. I know that seems counterintuitive, but in actual practice that's exactly how it works out in some cases.
I just wanted to say I think that's GREAT!
NEO stands for New England OverPower. It was a system intended to fix some of the issues with OP, that was going around the web back in 2001-02 IIRC. It was designed primarily by a guy named Lee Valentine, and play tested by a bunch of OP Fanatics in the New England area, including one of our old OP Buds who had moved up there. Lee now runs Veritas Games, so he went on to actually create and distribute other CCG/TCGs, including a game called PowerStorm that has a lot of elements from the NEO system.
Unfortunately there isn't really any info still available on the web about NEO. All the sites that I used to haunt are gone, and numerous searches have uncovered almost nothing else.
The info I have is a bit sketchy, but if you're interested I doubt any of those guys would mind if I e-mailed you what I do have. Send me an e-mail to justabgkid@aol.com and I'll get the stuff off to you, if you're interested.
The system actually worked very well, but we had several differences of opinion wrt the premises it was based upon and some of the ways they went about doing things, so we wound up taking our own path.
Quote from: Nostalgic on June 21, 2010, 12:10:55 PM
Quote from: Karmanal of Zert on June 19, 2010, 06:14:27 PM
My brother and I are equally strict in never having a single BU, ally, or double-shot card in our decks, but while he also abides by the strict no-trainings-rule, I do not. Just last night I was able to defend the initial (6) strike from a teamwork attack with a 2 energy which wound up giving me the battle (I still had a 6 or 7 in hand and had ventured more than one) and changed the momentum of the game so that for the first time I finally beat him with the decks we're currently playing with (him: Dr. Strange, Captain Mar-Vell, Omega Red, Morph [MC]; me: Brainiac, Riddler, Lex Luthor, Penguin). He's as strict as it seems everyone else here is about the use of trainings, so I figured I'd just point out that that didn't stop him from getting his butt whooped with a training card. ;D
Not sure why you don't use ally cards. I actually like ally cards as I think they allow you to maintain momentum while playing a special that is not attack related like a heal card or a venture manipulation card.
There are several other factors that affect the fesability of playing that training card you mentioned in that situation. For instance I was wondering, how many cards you both had left in your hands, what had already be played, what had been discarded, what was placed, what hits were already on your characters, was it an early battle or later battle (near power pack/all mission near completion)... By the way, all those various considerations are part of why I love overpower. 8) If your bro was playing a 7 to use teamwork and the next two attacks, say a multipower 4 and 5, were +2 that extra card used to block the initial attack might leave you with limited options or defense. Also, omega red has one of the specials that makes you defend a power card twice so this could also affect your options if it happended to be placed. My only point is that from a strategic standpoint it still comes down to more resrictive circumstances for when the card is useful. However, if said cards were allowed to be placed on location cards with a draw to replace... ;)
I just got into the habit of avoiding Ally cards because I was under the assumption that they
must be played with a special card, meaning if you don't happen to draw a special in the same hand, the card is wasted. I showed a good friend of mine how to play and we have been for a month or two; when he made his first deck he put in Ally cards and played one without a special which I thought he couldn't do - but when I actually read the card it said
may be played with a special. So my reason for not using them was, in fact, unfounded. I'll probably have some in the next deck I make!
And yeah I would've wrote more about the exact situation, but I couldn't remember! I was really happy I finally won because my brother was using a deck he had designed to make quick kills which was working very efficiently, especially since I had a deck I made mostly for fun when showing friends how to play. I was tweaking my deck every time we played (including putting Penguin in reserve and Riddler on the front line) and I was so psyched that I finally won that I pretty much forgot most of what happened!
Hello all!
I don't think of the Basic Universe, Training or (especially) doubleshots as useless at all. Though they are extremely limited and to maximize their use you need to plan around it.
An idea I came up with way back in the day to make them usable is this - simply make them recyclable. Therefore, BU, training and Doubleshots get recycled into the power pack, rather than using them once.
After 10 years of applying this simple change, let me tell you it works. Of course, you still have to construct your deck strategically, overloading with these cards won't help your deck. But anyone of them at the right time makes the difference. Especially in power pack.
I used to run tournaments, and it frustrated the hell out of me all the little details that could be tweaked to truly make this game dynamic. Alas.
Anyway. My two cents.
-BBH
Quote from: BigBadHarve on June 29, 2010, 02:05:21 PM
Hello all!
I don't think of the Basic Universe, Training or (especially) doubleshots as useless at all. Though they are extremely limited and to maximize their use you need to plan around it.
An idea I came up with way back in the day to make them usable is this - simply make them recyclable. Therefore, BU, training and Doubleshots get recycled into the power pack, rather than using them once.
After 10 years of applying this simple change, let me tell you it works. Of course, you still have to construct your deck strategically, overloading with these cards won't help your deck. But anyone of them at the right time makes the difference. Especially in power pack.
I used to run tournaments, and it frustrated the hell out of me all the little details that could be tweaked to truly make this game dynamic. Alas.
Anyway. My two cents.
-BBH
Well, I don't mean to be argumentative, but I pretty much stand by my original assessment.
I'd be willing to hazard a guess that if you took 2 decks that were equal in every other respect, except that one contained BU, Training, or DS Cards, and both were being played by players of relatively equal skill, that the deck without them would win the overwhelming majority of games.
Around here we just don't have any interest in resurrecting them from their, IMO well-deserved grave.
However, like I've said before, if anyone DOES like them, and thinks they can create House Rules that make them more effective, great! It ain't my business to be telling others how to play OP or have fun with it, and I fully support anyone doing whatever they think will keep OP fun and exciting for them. We're all big kids now and can make these kinds of decisions on our own!
LONG LIVE OP!
Post Merge: July 22, 2011, 04:39:44 PM
Quote from: BigBadHarve on June 29, 2010, 02:05:21 PM
Hello all!
I don't think of the Basic Universe, Training or (especially) doubleshots as useless at all. Though they are extremely limited and to maximize their use you need to plan around it.
An idea I came up with way back in the day to make them usable is this - simply make them recyclable. Therefore, BU, training and Doubleshots get recycled into the power pack, rather than using them once.
After 10 years of applying this simple change, let me tell you it works. Of course, you still have to construct your deck strategically, overloading with these cards won't help your deck. But anyone of them at the right time makes the difference. Especially in power pack.
I used to run tournaments, and it frustrated the hell out of me all the little details that could be tweaked to truly make this game dynamic. Alas.
Anyway. My two cents.
-BBH
Oh, welcome to the boards!
Quote from: CCTelander on June 29, 2010, 05:34:53 PM
Well, I don't mean to be argumentative, but I pretty much stand by my original assessment.
I'd be willing to hazard a guess that if you took 2 decks that were equal in every other respect, except that one contained BU, Training, or DS Cards, and both were being played by players of relatively equal skill, that the deck without them would win the overwhelming majority of games.
Around here we just don't have any interest in resurrecting them from their, IMO well-deserved grave.
However, like I've said before, if anyone DOES like them, and thinks they can create House Rules that make them more effective, great! It ain't my business to be telling others how to play OP or have fun with it, and I fully support anyone doing whatever they think will keep OP fun and exciting for them. We're all big kids now and can make these kinds of decisions on our own!
LONG LIVE OP!
You'll get that kind of response for many cards. I occasionally use the draw 1, do not discard duplicate cards. Many players think 'what's the point?' I use them mainly to stall, if I don't want to throw an attack, but want to see what my opponent will do next. They have their uses from time to time.
The goal with BUs, doubleshots and training was to make them more appealing, but not overpower (pardon the pun) them so you HAD to use them, especially for players who didn't like them.
But for the record, we actually did that experiment - two identical decks with two relatively equal players. (I'd like to think that I'm a little better than my chum, but our track record is pretty equal) The decks using the basic universe or doubleshots generally had more wins (we tested all separately, not all at once, using the recycling rule.) especially in games that reached power pack. The bonuses made all the difference at that stage of the game.
OH! And doubleshots are capable of defending the whole team, not just the character playing the card. That too makes a HUGE difference.
Regarding doubleshots, the part that makes them tricky to use is that ideally, you need a dual suit deck with a third off-stat no less than 4. All of your level 4 and 3 power cards need to be in that stat. Making a combination of characters to fully utilize the DS cards is the hard part. But if you can then it's worth tossing one or two in. (More worthwhile if they're recyclable.) But I don't usually build teams around a pathological need to use my Doubleshots. I look at the grids, and if they support it, I go for it. The Avengers Mansion makes particularly good use of Doubleshots. The dual suit grids allow for it and the homebase makes them very useful defensively.
I don't like the idea of any card being sent to it's grave, (not even Vertigo which must DIE... *ahem*), but just made more balanced. Especially with a game that has no more official cards coming out. Ever. :( *sigh* The more playable the existing cards, the better.
Quote from: CCTelander on June 29, 2010, 05:35:59 PM
Oh, welcome to the boards!
Thanks!!! ;D
It's been years since I've been able to talk OverPower with anyone other than my ONE playing partner. Now, if only we were all in the same city and could get some quality games in.
-BBH
Welcome, BBH! The idea of recycling BUs and Trainings in the Power Pack sounds like it would make a big difference if you actually get to the point in the game were you're playing with your PP (that's what she said), but aren't the cards still more of a hindrance than a help while your still going through your deck? How many of those do you usually put in a deck, and how many cards total do you usually put in a deck?
Quote from: Karmanal of Zert on June 29, 2010, 07:59:10 PM
Welcome, BBH! The idea of recycling BUs and Trainings in the Power Pack sounds like it would make a big difference if you actually get to the point in the game were you're playing with your PP (that's what she said), but aren't the cards still more of a hindrance than a help while your still going through your deck? How many of those do you usually put in a deck, and how many cards total do you usually put in a deck?
Hey, thanks!
Like any card, they're useful if used right. Everything in moderation, as they say.
I never use all three types in the same deck, and of course I never overload them. Training cards I generally only use if I've got the X-babies or am using Concrete Jungle (A couple of characters with a '5' in the same stat might warrant a training in the deck. In which case I put one for the babies or two for the jungle. Of course in that situation I don't bother with Doubleshots or BUs.
For Basic universe cards, I use 2 at most. Usually one. I'll put a second one if every character can use both.
Doubleshots I only use on dual suit decks. If they are suitable for a deck, then again, 2 at absolute most.
I do find they come in handy even before power pack. That basic universe is great against someone holding on to that beast activator, thinking he's going to save a guy using Acrobatics. Or placing it down on a key character for a little extra defense. Doubleshots are great for a nice little two icon sneak attack, usually fatal to an already injured character.
For general deckbuilding, I like to keep things lean:
3 of each level Power Card.
One of each usable teamwork.
10 - 12 Activators (of course it depends on the site)
OR: 10 Any Heroes
Complement of Character specials really depends on what I'm going for. But I rarely duplicate unless it's a crunchy hit, or a good defensive card.
2 - 3 events
An ally or two
6+3 Basic U (And possible 7+3) OR: Doubleshot
Maybe an artifact, again depending on the type of deck.
What are your deckbuilding methods?
-BBH
Quote from: BigBadHarve on June 29, 2010, 06:05:17 PM
I don't like the idea of any card being sent to it's grave, (not even Vertigo which must DIE... *ahem*), but just made more balanced. Especially with a game that has no more official cards coming out. Ever. :( *sigh* The more playable the existing cards, the better.
As far as the BU, Training and DS cards goes, you seem to have found something that works for you, which is great.
On the no new cards thing, well, you should check out Bios' homemade cards and mine as well. There are PLENTY of new cards, and creative new ideas floating around to keep OP alive and well for at least another 10 years!
Quote from: CCTelander on June 29, 2010, 05:35:59 PM
Oh, welcome to the boards!
Quote from: BigBadHarve on June 29, 2010, 06:05:17 PM
Thanks!!! ;D
It's been years since I've been able to talk OverPower with anyone other than my ONE playing partner. Now, if only we were all in the same city and could get some quality games in.
-BBH
Talking OP is almost as fun as playing it! Too bad there's no way to get some kind of unofficial quasi tournament circuit going. It would be a kick but I doubt there are enough players left for it to be feasable.
Quote from: BigBadHarve on June 29, 2010, 08:24:26 PM
For general deckbuilding, I like to keep things lean:
3 of each level Power Card.
One of each usable teamwork.
10 - 12 Activators (of course it depends on the site)
OR: 10 Any Heroes
Complement of Character specials really depends on what I'm going for. But I rarely duplicate unless it's a crunchy hit, or a good defensive card.
2 - 3 events
An ally or two
6+3 Basic U (And possible 7+3) OR: Doubleshot
Maybe an artifact, again depending on the type of deck.
What are your deckbuilding methods?
-BBH
As I imagine yours do, my deckbuilding methods are always changing. Right now here's the balance I'm currently enjoying:
4 of each Power Card (usually one type for all my 5-8 and a mix of off-types and multis for 1-4)
5 Teamwork cards (3-4 of the deck's main type, 1-2 of an off-type, usually 2 if the off-type gives bonuses to the deck's main type and/or it can be used by multiple characters)
1 Training
about 5 Any-Character
1-2 events
When there's a special I really like, say a 5 for attack or defense, or a 6 attack if successful opponent -4 to Venture total, a 7 attack, I tend to be rather liberal and throw in 3. Most specials I put in only one of, but I usually pick people with specials I like (obviously).
Lately I've been working with all-DC decks so I haven't gotten much into location cards yet, but my brother has all of them and I'm anxious to begin experimenting!
Quote from: Karmanal of Zert on June 30, 2010, 07:59:04 PM
As I imagine yours do, my deckbuilding methods are always changing. Right now here's the balance I'm currently enjoying:
4 of each Power Card (usually one type for all my 5-8 and a mix of off-types and multis for 1-4)
5 Teamwork cards (3-4 of the deck's main type, 1-2 of an off-type, usually 2 if the off-type gives bonuses to the deck's main type and/or it can be used by multiple characters)
1 Training
about 5 Any-Character
1-2 events
When there's a special I really like, say a 5 for attack or defense, or a 6 attack if successful opponent -4 to Venture total, a 7 attack, I tend to be rather liberal and throw in 3. Most specials I put in only one of, but I usually pick people with specials I like (obviously).
Lately I've been working with all-DC decks so I haven't gotten much into location cards yet, but my brother has all of them and I'm anxious to begin experimenting!
DC gets a lot of flack for being a crappy expansion (and that's not far off...) but there are some decent underused characters to come out of it.
Wonder Woman certainly isn't lacking, and Green lantern is pretty good. As are The Ray and The Flash. I admit to a soft spot for Trickster's 'Shell Game' special. If only they'd gotten Superman and Batman right... *sigh*
-BBH
Yeah all those guys you mentioned definitely were way above-par compared to what we were used to from the Batman/Superman set. The other good news with the JLA set is that numerous characters who got screwed in the special-power department in the original set got really strong OPDs in the second.
Welcome BBH!
With all the talk of DC I'm wondering if you've check this link. http://phillipgs.virtuaserver.com.br/overpower/ Great homemade DC cards there. Also ALOT of great homemade marvel specials on this site http://justabgkid.com/emporium/homemadeemporiumhome.html
Quote from: Nostalgic on July 02, 2010, 08:34:41 PM
Welcome BBH!
With all the talk of DC I'm wondering if you've check this link. http://phillipgs.virtuaserver.com.br/overpower/ Great homemade DC cards there. Also ALOT of great homemade marvel specials on this site http://justabgkid.com/emporium/homemadeemporiumhome.html
I just checked it! Nice, online gaming. Perhaps we'll all be able to get some games in after all. Not quite the same as the real thing... but a reasonable facsimile!
Of course, after registering and building a couple of decks, it's somewhat disappointing that there's no one online playing. :(
-BBH
Quote from: Nostalgic on July 02, 2010, 08:34:41 PM
Welcome BBH!
With all the talk of DC I'm wondering if you've check this link. http://phillipgs.virtuaserver.com.br/overpower/ Great homemade DC cards there. Also ALOT of great homemade marvel specials on this site http://justabgkid.com/emporium/homemadeemporiumhome.html
Thanks for the free plug!
LONG LIVE OP!
QuoteThose cards are available at http://phillipgs.virtuaserver.com.br/overpower/ . You can check any cards using the "build a deck" tool or look for specials by code or character using the "find special" tool.
Hey i'd be interested in checking out your cards, but I can't get this link to work. Do you still have the site up and running?
Quote from: CCTelander on June 07, 2010, 04:08:02 PM
Anyone who is familiar with the New England OP System might remember that their rules allowed you to draw a card to replace a played card once per battle, under certain circumstances. That worked out well for making BU, Training, DS and other cards that produce limited or weak effects and cause you to lose card advantage by playing them more useful.
I'm starting a separate thread on NEO (New England Overpower) if anyone wants to follow along. I still have all the files from the system somewhere around here I think.
Lee Valentine
b u and training can be good when 1 vs 1 character per player left