Some questions about KL specials (Opponent must immediately discard all Special cards in play that affect "the remainder of the battle" or "the remainder of the Game."):
Reading meta rule #116, I found KL also affects hits either on the current battle or in permanent record.
Quote
(116) Specials which target cards which are "in play" target all cards which are in play that meet the requirements of the card. This includes cards which are in play next to the Character or team, cards which are in play on other Characters, and cards which have landed as hits either on the current battle or in permanent record.
Can I use KL to remove hits with lasting effects? (e.g: NG, EL, MC)
Can KL affect specials wich effects are no longer active, like a "remainder of battle" from a previous battle?
KL was used to remove an MC hit in the finals of our October tournament. So yes, at the very least, it can remove it if it was played in the battle.
My hunch is that it wouldn't removed a MC hit in your permanent record, solely on the fact it isn't affecting the current battle any more.
I would argue that so long as one of the phrases "for remainder of game" or "for remainder of battle" appear on a card in the permanent record, the KL would remove it, regardless of if it is actually having any affect on the current battle. Just my two cents.
Now this is interesting. By the 'letter of the law' it would seem you could remove a hit on the permenant record that had a lasting effect in a previous battle. To me its almost like a different type of EE special. However, Jack's hunch may be right as far as the designers' intent goes. I'm cool with it either way, but from the standpoint of increasing its usefulness it would be a nice boost to allow it to affect hits on the permanent record.
Quote from: Nostalgic on March 19, 2012, 12:23:55 AM
Now this is interesting. By the 'letter of the law' it would seem you could remove a hit on the permenant record that had a lasting effect in a previous battle. To me its almost like a different type of EE special. However, Jack's hunch may be right as far as the designers' intent goes. I'm cool with it either way, but from the standpoint of increasing its usefulness it would be a nice boost to allow it to affect hits on the permanent record.
I've always read it and played it that the KL-Specials are effectively attacking any Special cards in play with the words "remainder of battle" or "remainder of game" - - as opposed to attacking the
effects of those Special cards.
Since the cards on Permanent Records are still "in play" then I'd say they're absolutely removed with a KL Special.
I dug this up from http://www.oocities.org/timessquare/ring/8991/sp_k.htm
QuoteKL (offensive) - When this Special is played, the resolution is as follows: 1) This Special is played and put in the Dead Pile. It is only at this point that this Special may be negated. 2) Any Special card that the opponent has that is in play is immediately discarded if it contains the phrase "remainder of the Battle" or "remainder of the Game". This includes opponent's Specials: in play on one of their frontline or reserve characters; in play on an their opponent's Frontline or Reserve characters, either on their Permanent Records or Hits from Current Battle. This Special does not affect Tactic: Artifact cards, Special cards that are placed, or Event cards.
So it really does remove them, even if they aren't actively effective? Very interesting card indeed.
it is indeed.
then there's cards like hawkeye's quiver of arrows that are in effect till he is ko'd.
shame the only commonly used character with this card is x-babies. spreading it around a bit would have really helped
dammit, i'm going to build a falcon deck! always wanted to use him
Counting The Marvels there are 6, but after X-babies I think Puppet Master or Captain Britain bring some other good tricks with them.
Quote from: Jack on March 19, 2012, 02:01:12 PM
I dug this up from http://www.oocities.org/timessquare/ring/8991/sp_k.htm
QuoteKL (offensive) - When this Special is played, the resolution is as follows: 1) This Special is played and put in the Dead Pile. It is only at this point that this Special may be negated. 2) Any Special card that the opponent has that is in play is immediately discarded if it contains the phrase "remainder of the Battle" or "remainder of the Game". This includes opponent's Specials: in play on one of their frontline or reserve characters; in play on an their opponent's Frontline or Reserve characters, either on their Permanent Records or Hits from Current Battle. This Special does not affect Tactic: Artifact cards, Special cards that are placed, or Event cards.
I am totally cool with this clarification, but it seems another case in wich the special text was poorly written, just like DB or EE specials. We wouldn't need most of the meta rules if they paid more attetion on wording...
KL should read "
with the phrase remainder of" instead of "
that affect the remainder of", similar to KI specials.
Quote from: breadmaster on March 19, 2012, 03:55:08 PM
dammit, i'm going to build a falcon deck! always wanted to use him
good luck man
thank you sir
i built it like this:
falcon, cap, superpatriot, hakeye (r)
any-heroes
it won 2/3 against an avalon deck...not a bad result at all
it's weird using basic universe again. put in 6/7/8+3
EDIT:
also, since i went with anyheroes, i left out the KL...the reason behind building this deck! :-\
does it remove devourer of worlds?
Yes, but not your own:)
Hey Breadmaster, you should play Falcon's KL. Surely it will get something most of the time.
Quote from: BasiliskFang on December 12, 2012, 01:49:15 PM
does it remove devourer of worlds?
that is, perhaps, it's single best use and it's primary function for lot of decks. only bummer there? can't pull it from a Battlesite once DoW is played! ARGH!!
!!! (Insert "Mother of God" meme here)
I never thought about using this to remove hits from people... that seems insane. I just saw it as a way to get rid of the effects of non numerical specials.... but ... damn, just damn. That's wicked good.
Yeah dude... blew me away when I found that out, too. I can't wait to shred 10's and 11's off my team's record with KL's. I don't think that's how they meant for it to work, but I didn't make the rules. Good thing, too... as I seem to think cards do much less in most cases than they actually do. 8)
If it were up to me they wouldn't remove hits. That does seem to be a bit suspicious. The way they're worded they should, but that just doesn't feel right... meh.
Quote from: Hotobu on December 14, 2012, 12:58:25 AM
If it were up to me they wouldn't remove hits. That does seem to be a bit suspicious. The way they're worded they should, but that just doesn't feel right... meh.
Trust me, it's not broken. It sounds great in theory, but it doesn't always come up - especially when you need it to. Once in a while you'll get a great use out of a KL and nail more than one card, maybe even heal something - but usually, it's just a discard in your hand.
-BBH
can it be used to combat this?
* DEVOURER OF WORLDS (OD) <XM> {R} [OPD] Play during battle. Opponent cannot use Activator cards for remainder
of game or until this Special has been attacked with 4 Activator card attacks. This Special may not be negated.
(http://overpower.ca/cards/specials/1529.png)
it doesn't negate the cards specifically, it discards... clarification? :)
Yes
I've heard it referred to as "anti-DOW" card but it can remove CONCEAL, lock out cards like pretty boy, lock down cards like Python hold, stars and garters and grid enhancing AY's. It's negate worthy if you try to have them discard DOW.
It'll also remove hits that have lingering FROB/FROG effects too. It was used in one of our tournaments to remove X-Man's 11 in a clear victory.
so KL. for my questions lets assume x-babies is on the team. banshee, thor and x-man are on my opponents.
It can remove DOW.
Does it remove the sub effect of unfettered might if unfettered might is no longer on the table but did land? or is on the table and did land?
(http://overpower.ca/cards/specials/1400.png)
does it undo the effect of 11 specials?
(http://overpower.ca/cards/specials/111.png) could the opponent's banshee attack again?
can i hit their x-man again?
(http://overpower.ca/cards/specials/1535.png)
While it's not a rule in the game, my take has always been that lasting effects should always remain on the table. Technically speaking, if you have Thor's 12 in play, and I remove the hit (but not negate it) you should keep that card somewhere conspicuous as it is still 'in play.'
Maybe we should declare a rule for our events indicating as much. Any card in play must remain on the table, even if it's not directly in the permanent/current record of a character. Thus the Thor 12 for example wouldn't be returned to the dead pile after it's removed unless it was negated or removed with a KL.
Either way, KL specials do remove all effects in play that meet the requirements. I'd personally rule in a tournament that it includes cards that are no longer on the table as well, as the effects are still active, therefore in play.
definitely hard to remember if the cards aren't around to remind you
then again, I messed it up with the card clearly visible. in buffalo I used the 11m (team may not attack) which landed as a hit, and very next turn tried to launch a tw...