This is the card that says an attack on Marauders or their teammate may be moved to target front liner for remainder of battle. The way this card has been used against me, my opponent has been shifting every attack from every opponent. Isn't the card supposed to be played ON one team member or Marauders and only attacks to that one team member can be shifted to whoever? When reading it, it seems to imply that it is to be played on one character and not for your whole team to shift every attack where you want. Am I wrong on this? I did a search to see if anyone had previously asked about this card and didn't find anything, so hopefully this is a fresh one. Thanks in advance you Smarty McSmartpants, you.
(http://overpower.ca/cards/specials/799.png)
QuoteThe effect of this special is that it allows the player playing the special to shift any attack that is made by the opponent that targets one of the player's character (front line or reserve) to a different character (who must be on the front line). This effect last until the end of the battle. If the redirected attack causes there to be no function then it has effectively blocked the attack (for example, attacking a character with an AI special that is redirected to a different character who has no placed cards, has effectively blocked the AI special from landing). If the character playing the special is KO'd during the battle, then the effect of this special continues until the end of the battle.
So basically, the card can allow ONE front line character (shifter) to shift all attacks to ONE other front line character of your choice (shiftee). Basically, that just means that the shifter cannot be attacked for the rest of the battle.
Quote from: Allo on April 19, 2012, 12:06:58 AMBasically, that just means that the shifter cannot be attacked for the rest of the battle.
No. It means the Defender (player of this special) can choose to the target of all the opponent's attacks for remainder of battle. The opponent (attacker) can attack whoever they like, but the defender can shift it to whoever they like.
Really? Wow, that's unusual. People where I live seem to play this card differently.
If you were able to shift it from any character to any other character, then it should read:
"Any attack made on Marauders' TEAM may be moved to ANY other front line character of Marauder's choice for remainder of battle. Character may defend."
(i.e. similar to what is on Four Freedoms Plaza).
Even so, if it read something closer to "Any attack made on Marauders AND teammateS (i.e. emphasis on the plural)" then it would make more sense.
Also, according to what Jack posted:
"The effect of this special is that it allows the player playing the special to shift any attack that is made by the opponent that targets ONE of the player's character (front line or reserve) to a different character (who must be on the front line)."
It doesn't say attack "that targets ANY of the player's character".
Jack's post really didn't clear it up for me and both of you seem to take opposite sides. Jack just kind of restated the card, and what he wrote can still be interpreted in the way both of you have mentioned. I personally think this card is doing exactly as Allo explained in his first post. If it gave you free reign to shift everything to anywhere on frontline, I believe it would be worded much differently.... Now after I've typed this out and reread Jack's post several times, I'm thinking he agrees with Nostalgic :( Can you clear this up a little more Jacky?
Don't call me Jacky.
I copy and pasted the "official" way to play the card from the Tournament Guide.
You play the special like a normal special. It modifies any attacks made on Marauders or teammate. The opponent makes attacks as normal (so the attacks would target one character) but Marauders' team have the option to move the attack onto any Front Line Character of Marauder's choice. Defence is optional.
It never says that you state which character you wish to benefit from Vertigo. The "one" applies per attack and does not have to be the same in other attacks.
I never realized that, that was how this card was played - seems mighty benefitical for a battlesite....is the Morlocks Tunnels a good site to use? I've not played with it yet but am highly considering it now ;)
Quote from: Jesse on April 19, 2012, 07:02:25 AM
I never realized that, that was how this card was played - seems mighty benefitical for a battlesite....is the Morlocks Tunnels a good site to use? I've not played with it yet but am highly considering it now ;)
http://overpower.ca/tools/battlesites.php
you decide ;)
(http://overpower.ca/cards/specials/866.png)
i hate when that comes up
I know what cards are there....I havent run battlesites yet since I got back into OP and I'm sure when I ran them when I was younger, I ran them incorrectly ;D I was just wondering in comparision to other sites would this be a good one to use.
do not repeat your past mistakes grasshoppa ;)
Since that doesnt answer my question, I'll repost.
People that have play this site - how does it stack up compared to others?
Thanks!
I just wanted to shed a little more light.
There is no doubt that this card is a pain in the arse! It really makes it hard to KO characters when Marauders are there, grouping attacks to avoid spectrum/cumulative - or shifting them to ... dun dun DUNNN! XBABIES!!
The pairing of X-babies with Marauders was a major factor in the Dead Is Dead rule.
Also, the extreme usefulness of this card is why they determined to nerf it a little so that it could no longer be played defensively (as it was possible originally).
oh so it is offensive only? That's good news. it was a huge pain for me after the event 'Lambs to Slaughter' came out.
Sorry about calling you Jacky, had no idea it would upset you and did not mean to offend.
Morlocks Tunnel is very fun to play with. Probably one of the better ones if you like variety.
Vertigo, even if not defensive, is still a pain especially from a battlesite. Caliban from Storm/Morlocks gives you a extra Beyonder in a way. There's a CD/AH lockdown option with Beast/Storm. There's a negate as well. And then there's the Storm: Neutralized that gives you freedom to put either Storm: Neutralized or Morlocks for the Morlocks' non-OPDs.
Quote from: Jack on April 19, 2012, 01:16:21 PM
Morlocks Tunnel is very fun to play with. Probably one of the better ones if you like variety.
Vertigo, even if defensive, is still a pain especially from a battlesite. Caliban from Storm/Morlocks gives you a extra Beyonder in a way. There's a CD/AH lockdown option with Beast/Storm. There's a negate as well. And then there's the Storm: Neutralized that gives you freedom to put either Storm: Neutralized or Morlocks for the Morlocks' non-OPDs.
Awesome. I knew a lot of the cards were decent, but I didn't even think about the other things you said - I think I will definitely grow fond of this site when I start playing it :D
Quote from: DarKBladE09 on April 19, 2012, 01:10:35 PM
oh so it is offensive only?
Yes, I find it extremely offensive! :P
Morlock Tunnels is a great site. It has a decent variety of tricks and defense, based on your needs.
Solid OPDs include- Malice, Gathering Winds, Morlocks Leech (Yes, I know a few of you will look :o at that one, but trust me, it's won me a few games)
Plus variety of unique cards for defense and effects - A Negate, only universe (or only strength for variety), no universe, Healing, avoids and of course Vertigo... attacks include various AR options from a couple of characters, Marauders: Arc Light, Morlocks: Callisto, Sabretooth: Dangerous Mind among others...
So yeah, Morlock tunnels = a good site. ;)
-BBH
I'm well aware of how Vertigo actually works, but I must say, based on it's wording alone, it does seem like you would have to chose your 2 characters when you play the Special itself, instead of choosing each attack, but as we all know, there are plenty of cards in OP that you don't play as written, you have to go out of your way to find out how the card was intended to be used, and only use it that way. Having known Vertigo's effect, I never bothered to actually read her, but you are right, a card written as she is in any other card game would have a much more literal effect.
Quote from: Demacus on April 19, 2012, 06:06:22 PM
I'm well aware of how Vertigo actually works, but I must say, based on it's wording alone, it does seem like you would have to chose your 2 characters when you play the Special itself, instead of choosing each attack, but as we all know, there are plenty of cards in OP that you don't play as written, you have to go out of your way to find out how the card was intended to be used, and only use it that way. Having known Vertigo's effect, I never bothered to actually read her, but you are right, a card written as she is in any other card game would have a much more literal effect.
I don't think that's right. The card is ambiguous and, because there is no punctuation, it can be (and is) played as open to interpretation as possible. Nothing about the way it's played contradicts the text, so it's still being played "as written." Any added restrictions are inferred based on experience with other card effects and other games.
There are a lot of cards like this, hence the meta-rules and tournament guide :-\
(ninja edit on first line ;))
p.s.,
plus there's the intent of the card. She's a character that would do exactly this - make you feel so off balance so that when you think you're attacking one person, you're actually attacking some one else. To be honest, I'm thankful that you can't take this card even more literally, and have an attack made on Marauders or their teammate be turned around back on to one of my own characters :-[
I re-read it again... I think my brian added a word or two that isn't there. It is kind of confusing to read, but again, knowing full well how it works, I'm not gonna worry about it. lol To quote a friend of mine: "Don't ask, just believe."
Quote from: ncannelora on April 19, 2012, 06:11:58 PM
I don't think that's right. The card is ambiguous and, because there is no punctuation, it can be (and is) played as open to interpretation as possible. Nothing about the way it's played contradicts the text, so it's still being played "as written." Any added restrictions are inferred based on experience with other card effects and other games.
... To be honest, I'm thankful that you can't take this card even more literally, and have an attack made on Marauders or their teammate be turned around back on to one of my own characters :-[
Never thought about the possibility of shifiting to an opponent character, but since it says "Front Line Character" instead of "Front Line
Teammate", I guess it could be done if you want to play as written. Take "Trick Transport" (DZ) for example, it says "Target hero (character)" and it can be officially played on teammates or opponent's characters.
I am not saying that I agree with that, only that the text doesn't restrict it. In fact I think the card would be too powerful if played this way.
There are other two cards that could be interpreted this way: The Justice League Any Character (although it only allows one shifiting) and Trickster's "Bait and Switch", wich would totally turn against Trickster if played as written!
I rewrote LN's text in my homemades. The idea was making it clear enough for playing as written (including icons to indicate duration and that the card must be played offensively).
(http://i.imgur.com/Co9nz.jpg)
You are absolutely right, Bios. It should state target teammate. Very interesting. Vertigo being able to shift attacks back at their attacker's allies would make a LOT of sense, but would be insanely overpowered. I guess if it were playable that way, either her errata would have been harsher, or Marauders would have simply had to been banned in the professional circles outright. Does this one fall under your play as written, BBH? :D
Quote from: Demacus on April 19, 2012, 08:21:22 PM
Does this one fall under your play as written, BBH? :D
Yes. We simply made it OPD.
;)
-BBH
so basically u attacks marauders and they move it to wolverine
"just because we have to work with you doesnt mean we have to like you"
It makes sense that people think this card is overpowered then. The solution could be to make it an OPD as per BBH, or just reduce the effect of the card to the closest representation of what the text says (i.e. pick one person to shift from, and one person to shift to).
Bios makes a good point about it possibily even being a front line character on the opposing team as it doesn't state which team the character needs to be on. So obviously if you don't want to attack the shifter then, otherwise you'd attack your own team!
The meta-rules don't actually clarify the use of the card either, nor do the tournament guides. Ultimately, I guess whoever is playing at the time can come up with their own rules. As long as it's clear before the game starts, there shouldn't be any issue.
I like that thought a lot. I think that the card was meant to choose a shifter and shiftee and maybe even meant to allow targeting of oneself. Of course, my opinion is no more right or wrong than someone who believes the opposite. They really left a lot in this game for us to speculate on, eh?