Palatinus' OverPower Forum

Acts as a level 3 Fighting attack. Can only be defended by a level 3 Power card. If defended, Power card hits Longshot. (CV)

1) if 'into the depths' event (Level 1 Intellect Power cards may be used to avoid any numerical attack this battle.) would you say this defends the longshot card?

2) if taskmaster is attacked (inherent: May use Intellect Power cards to avoid any Fighting attack), could he use any intellect power card to defend

basically, the question is: what do you think is the order of precedence for specials/inherents/events.  i'd say it goes in that order (e>i>s)

also, a follow up.  if longshots team has a bonus or the opponent a penalty (+2 or -1), would you say a level 3 would still block the card, as indicated on the special?  i'm leaning towards yes

The CV special restricts what type of defense is allow against it. In this case, it only allows for level 3 power cards.

1) I would say no, it's not a Level 3 Power card regardless of what effects are added on to the card.
2) Again, no. Unless it's a level 3 Intellect Power card.

Follow up) Yes, the card itself bypasses any bonuses. Think of it as Kryptonite.

So in other words:

1) The only card that you can play is a Level 3 power card (a power card with a 3 printed on it). No other cards can come out of your hand (or placed). No basic Universe. No specials. Nothing.

2) That level 3 Power card must be sufficient to block the value of the attack. In most cases, the value is 3.  But let's say, player Attack is using Maverick. Player Attack is +2, so that Level 5 must be blocked with a Level 3 power card. Impossible.

2a) BUT if Player Defend also has Maverick, and already has their +2 in play, then they can defend that 3+2 Attack with a Level 3 Power Card that is + 2.
2b) Obviously, you can't play Team Coordination in defense, because the only thing that can be played is a Level 3 Power Card.

Quote from: halcyon1234 on February 04, 2013, 03:55:46 PM
So in other words:

1) The only card that you can play is a Level 3 power card (a power card with a 3 printed on it). No other cards can come out of your hand (or placed). No basic Universe. No specials. Nothing.

2) That level 3 Power card must be sufficient to block the value of the attack. In most cases, the value is 3.  But let's say, player Attack is using Maverick. Player Attack is +2, so that Level 5 must be blocked with a Level 3 power card. Impossible.

2a) BUT if Player Defend also has Maverick, and already has their +2 in play, then they can defend that 3+2 Attack with a Level 3 Power Card that is + 2.
2b) Obviously, you can't play Team Coordination in defense, because the only thing that can be played is a Level 3 Power Card.

you got it. Combining the CV-Special with a booster makes it nigh-impossible to block. It's a good move (as are JZ/JW + boosters).

I think it should still be able to be negated.

Quote from: BasiliskFang on February 04, 2013, 04:29:10 PM
I think it should still be able to be negated.

well, the rules are pretty clear that when cards are combined, they share properties. So, Gambit's Staff Attack (AE), when combined with a level 4 Strength Power card, could then be defended by ALL of these cards,

     * ANALYZE (AO) <OP> {C}
        Negates the effect of any 1 Special card played by opponent

     * FELINE FURY (CD) <IQ> {U}
        Only Fighting attacks may be played against Black Cat for remainder of
            battle.

     * SUPER-ESCAPE ARTIST (AH) <JL> {C}
        No Special cards may be played against Mister Miracle for remainder of
            battle.

     * KINETIC ABSORPTION (CN) <PS> {U}
        No Strength cards may be played against Strong Guy for remainder of
            battle.

(because the Power card takes on all the properties of the Special, and the Special takes on all the properties of the Power card)

Because the BG is already a pretty flexible card and simple card, I'm having trouble imagining a circumstance where it would add a property (aside from its bonus) to another Special card (like the ability to play offensively or defensively)... so it makes sense that when it's combined with a JZ, JW, or another tricky-to-defend Special, that what's highlighted is the properties it's acquiring (as opposed to "shared" properties going to both cards).

Acts as a level 3 Fighting attack. "Can only be defended by a level 3 Power card". If defended, Power card hits Longshot. (CV)

Here's where I have big trouble in little china.  This text seems to override the value of the defense necessary to block the attack.  You shouldn't need any other bonus. The 3 power card should be enough.  It says so right on the card.

Crux can avoid any attack with a level one intellect power card.  Even if its value is higher than the one intellect.  Why does the text on the card for One In a Million not permit the level 3 power card to block the 3F +2?

If you place Bastion to Team Overpower, which is via a different means than the text on Bastion, you still can only negate an any hero.  Because the text says so on the card.  One In a Million reads right on the card a level 3 power card is the only card that can block it. 

If this isn't the case, why?

3 to block, ever.
Makes sense to me. The card is already awesome strong.

The card isn't granting special permission. If it was, it would read:

"Acts as a Level 3 fighting attack. Opponent may avoid with a level 3 power card."

Then it would read like Crux.  Crux's inherent grants her the special permission to ignore the usual rules, and treat her Level 1 power cards as if they read "Avoid 1 attack".

But this card is NOT like that. Its wording imposing a restriction.  Under the normal rules, you may play any defensive card as a defense. This overrides the rules, and explicitly states that the ONLY card that may be played in defense is a Level 3 Power Card. Look at the card you are about to play. Is it a level 3 power card? Then no, you can't play it.

No, you can't negate it. Is a Negate a Level 3 Power Card and ONLY a Level 3 Power Card? Nope. Okay, can't play it.

Wait, you have a homemade special for Warlock that says "Acts as a Level 3 Power Card (and actually a power card, not just an attack. Seriously)".  Can you play it? Ask the question again...

Is the card you are holding in your hand a Level 3 Power Card and ONLY a Level 3 Power card?.  It acts like one. But its also a special. So no, you can't play it.

Restrictions always override permissions. Crux MAY avoid any attack with a level 1 Intellect Power Card, but she MAY NOT play anything except a Level 3 Power Card in defense.

Avengers MAY use and Doubleshot with normal contribution to avoid any attack.  But they MAY NOT play anything except a Level 3 Power Card in defense. They can't play a Doubeshot with a Level 3 Power card, because a Doubleshot is NOT a level 3 power card.

If you had a homemade inherent that said "Captain Amazing may avoid any attack with a Level 3 Power Card".  And if he was attacked with One in a Million under the influence of Team Co-ordination...

THEN and only THEN could he avoid (not just block) the OIAM with a Level 3 Power Card, even though the attack is coming in at 3F+2.

In summary: Restrictions override permissions. One in a Million imposes a restriction. The restriction is ONLY, which means that unless the card being played matches the ONLY restriction, it cannot be played.

if that's what the majority feels, then i'll accept it

don't agree with it though.  sure, the special says what can and can't be used to defend, but inherents and events change the rules of the game.  imo, inherents should override specials, and events should override inherents (except when specials specifically outline otherwise: ie legacy regression)

Quote from: halcyon1234 on February 05, 2013, 10:12:11 AM
The card isn't granting special permission. If it was, it would read:

"Acts as a Level 3 fighting attack. Opponent may avoid with a level 3 power card."

Then it would read like Crux.  Crux's inherent grants her the special permission to ignore the usual rules, and treat her Level 1 power cards as if they read "Avoid 1 attack".

But this card is NOT like that. Its wording imposing a restriction.  Under the normal rules, you may play any defensive card as a defense. This overrides the rules, and explicitly states that the ONLY card that may be played in defense is a Level 3 Power Card. Look at the card you are about to play. Is it a level 3 power card? Then no, you can't play it.

No, you can't negate it. Is a Negate a Level 3 Power Card and ONLY a Level 3 Power Card? Nope. Okay, can't play it.

Wait, you have a homemade special for Warlock that says "Acts as a Level 3 Power Card (and actually a power card, not just an attack. Seriously)".  Can you play it? Ask the question again...

Is the card you are holding in your hand a Level 3 Power Card and ONLY a Level 3 Power card?.  It acts like one. But its also a special. So no, you can't play it.

Restrictions always override permissions. Crux MAY avoid any attack with a level 1 Intellect Power Card, but she MAY NOT play anything except a Level 3 Power Card in defense.

Avengers MAY use and Doubleshot with normal contribution to avoid any attack.  But they MAY NOT play anything except a Level 3 Power Card in defense. They can't play a Doubeshot with a Level 3 Power card, because a Doubleshot is NOT a level 3 power card.

If you had a homemade inherent that said "Captain Amazing may avoid any attack with a Level 3 Power Card".  And if he was attacked with One in a Million under the influence of Team Co-ordination...

THEN and only THEN could he avoid (not just block) the OIAM with a Level 3 Power Card, even though the attack is coming in at 3F+2.

In summary: Restrictions override permissions. One in a Million imposes a restriction. The restriction is ONLY, which means that unless the card being played matches the ONLY restriction, it cannot be played.

Well met, champ.  Great breakdown.

Quote from: breadmaster on February 05, 2013, 07:26:25 PM
if that's what the majority feels, then i'll accept it

don't agree with it though.  sure, the special says what can and can't be used to defend, but inherents and events change the rules of the game.  imo, inherents should override specials, and events should override inherents (except when specials specifically outline otherwise: ie legacy regression)

Can you think of a situation not using One In a Million that this order wouldn't resolve?  I can't think of these tight situations really... they just have to come up.  I get the restriction versus permission thing... that makes sense, and should be in the rule book.  But what are some situations where this order would be necessary?  Do any come to mind?

stumbled accross this baby again

meta 134: If one Special sets up a condition and then a second Special comes along with text that directly contradicts the first Special, then the Special played later takes precedence. On the other hand, Events always override the text of Specials.

this would suggest the 1 intellect could in fact be used to avoid one in a million

Whoa...

Quote from: breadmaster on February 06, 2013, 06:32:48 PM
stumbled accross this baby again

meta 134: If one Special sets up a condition and then a second Special comes along with text that directly contradicts the first Special, then the Special played later takes precedence. On the other hand, Events always override the text of Specials.

this would suggest the 1 intellect could in fact be used to avoid one in a million

This would also mean that the "Do not discard duplicates" Events would allow you to keep duplicates off an HQ Special, contrary to the Special's text...

Whoa...