goblyn queen: phoenix lifeforce

[breadmaster]

Play during battle. On your turn, after Goblyn Queen is KO'd, discard this Special to move Goblyn Queen from Defeated Characters Pile to Reserve. Play as normal.

since i was thinking of using a similar mechanic, i wanted to clear one thing up.  GC plays the card on her turn, and the opponent has a choice to negate.  after ko'd, she discards the special on her turn to get the effect of the card.

do you think the opponent gets a second chance to negate, since GC plays this on her turn?  or has the card already been played, and the chance to negate defensively forfeited?

[Jack]

It can be negated offensively between the time the card is played and the turn before Goblyn Queen is KO'd.

[breadmaster]

that's not what i meant

after she is ko'd, you discard the already played special to get her back.  the card says, 'on you turn, after goblyn queen is ko'd...'

so discarding the special would count as your offensive action.  my question is, does the opponent get a 2nd chance to negate, while you discard the special to reap it's benefit.

also, i never realized, but i guess you don't have to 'discard' the special immediately.  it just says after she is ko'd, not 'on the turn after she is ko'd'

[Jack]

Do you really use up your turn to discard the special?

[steve2275]

i think it you should be able to negate if after its been played
but before the ko happens

something like this
turn 1 "Play during battle."
turn 2 "Negates the effects of any 1 Special card played by Opponent"
card goes away

[breadmaster]

i assume it uses up your turn discarding the special, since it says on your turn.  are there any other times you get to perform 2 different actions on a turn?

as much as i hate it, it seems to me that the opponent WOULD in fact get a second chance to negate phoenix lifeforce defensively.  there is no rule saying so, but i'd be interested to hear what other posters think

[Torch]

If I were a judge, I would say:

-The opponent has (1) defensive chance to negate the card, when it is played.
-The opponent has multiple offensive chances to negate the card before Phoenix is KO'd.
-The opponent has no defensive chance to negate the card again as the opponent cannot stop (negate) an offensive discard, and the moving of Goblyn Queen is a triggered effect resulting from the discard, not the playing of the special card which was already 'played' previously.

[Palatinus]

If I were a judge, I would say:

-The opponent has (1) defensive chance to negate the card, when it is played.
-The opponent has multiple offensive chances to negate the card before Phoenix is KO'd.
-The opponent has no defensive chance to negate the card again as the opponent cannot stop (negate) an offensive discard, and the moving of Goblyn Queen is a triggered effect resulting from the discard, not the playing of the special card which was already 'played' previously.

This seems to be the most logical conclusion.  I can't imagine playing a special would take two separate turns.  Discarding the card does not appear to in any way be an offensive action so there doesn't seem to be any reason to think it could be negated defensively on the turn it is being discarded.

[breadmaster]

i like that interpretation too

the retrieving the character is the 'action', and can't be negated.  discarding is just placing the special in the dead pile to signify it's been triggered...no effect to negate

i'll buy that

[gameplan.exe]

i like that interpretation too

the retrieving the character is the 'action', and can't be negated.  discarding is just placing the special in the dead pile to signify it's been triggered...no effect to negate

i'll buy that

This is actually just like a JA-Special. Playing the Special is the part that can be negated. When you discard the Special, you're no longer "playing" it. So, like the JA-Special, your opportunity to negate is when the Special is played, not when the discarding is happening... Maybe even closer to this is the JT-Leech. You can't wait until you see your opponent discard 4, then be like "oh no, I want to use this negate after all..."