Great Comebacks!

[BigBadHarve]

Wow, it certainly has been slow around here lately.

I was thinking about a few games I've played over the years, where my ass was thoroughly handed to me, but yet I managed to pull a fast one and take the win.

One such case involved an extremely well timed (read: LUCKY) use of the 'cheese' rule. I had 1 completed mission and 6 defeated. Using Age of Apocalypse I got the event that moves all defeated missions to the reserve, and bet all 6. I had one injured character left (Spider woman), with two hits to the spectrum.) Danger room was the site. Using Beast I was able to create a partial block off, and wounded my opponent with a dinky level 3 power card. He came at me with a teamwork, the first attack I blocked the second was a level 1 power card for the kill. I almost blocked it then I realized, I just won! I let it hit and voila, Cheese win!

Anyone else have some story of a win you pulled out of your arse?

-BBH

[justa]

i'm not so sure about that one, Harve.  once Spider Woman is killed off, the game is over because you have no characters left.  you never get to the venture total part of the battle.  at least the way we played it......  but to each their own!  (as log as you all agree!)  javascript:void(0);

[BigBadHarve]

It's a perfectly legal move going by official rules. Completing your missions trumps Character KO. If I sacrifice my team to make venture to complete my mission, I win. It is referred to in the colloquial as the 'cheese' ruling.

The rule I DON'T agree with is that the game immediately stops when a team is destroyed. At the March Madness tournament in 2000, I had an opponent beat me via this tactic - He let his final character die from an Ally, thus immediately ending the match and giving him the win (he'd scored 5 pts on me already), even though my follow up card was Dr. Doom's Villainous Plot (Opponent is -6 to Venture) which would have given me the win. (And before you ask, YES, I used Dr. Doom in a tournament deck.)

I believe that the round should not be over until both players have passed. A player with no characters may still have a playable aspect, which is playable through the homebase not a frontline character. Likewise, a player who has wiped out an opponent's team may still have a trump card that should be playable. Obviously cards that target an opponent's team would be unplayable, but a card that adds to venture, or heals characters should still be playable. Perhaps a card that resets the missions (Shadow King's Twist Desire).

-BBH

[bamf!]

Venture and Mission takes priority over KO.

I recall a match where my opponent was down 6 defeated missions/1 reserve mission, my missions were all over the place but down to my last character with 2 Spectrum hits. My opponent was confident in a KO victory, and took a level 6 Powercard hit on one of his character. His plan was to quickly Spectrum-KO my final character for the win. However, the cards needed for the Spectrum-KO were all low level Powercards, which I allowed to hit. Once my character was KO'd, I won the venture, my opponent moved his final mission to the defeated pile, and I won the game in the process.

BBH, I agree with you concerning the Ally card, the follow-up must be played since otherwise playing the Ally card would be an incomplete action. Your opponent was probably too hasty in his victory, and forgot to consider this point.

bamf!

[gameplan.exe]

Wow, I totally didn't know that Venture > KO! interesting, considering context, as I can see Heroes willing to die in order to complete a mission, wherein their death does not allow the villain to succeed, in and of itself. ...

Anyway, as for a great comback - this didn't end the game, but it certainly swung it back into my favor.

I placed up my entire hand (like 5 cards) and my opponent went 3 FTW, so I drew a card...

It was Rogue's POWER WIPE (from The Marvels)...

It was my turn first, and I obviously couldn't concede, so I take a swing at Spider-Woman with it...

And it lands! My opponent had to discard - HIS. ENTIRE. HAND!!!

I won the battle and fought my way back to a victory in the end. Great play.

[Onslaught]

I'll post some of my own when I have more time later, but here is an excerpt from Jon Land of the West Coast Empire

 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Stryfe's Stryke Fyles:
He had 5 missions completed with 2 in reserve. I had 3 missions in reserve with 4 in my loss pile. The only advantage I had was I had knocked out 2 of his guys, Iceman and Surfer. I had my team intact but with a lot of hits. Finally I got my good hand. He ventured 2 for the game so I ventured 2 as well. We played it out. He ko'd Cyke, I got his Banshee, at the end I had one card left in my hand to his Nova Burst placed on Torch. It was his turn to play and the venture was tied.

He sat there for the longest time just staring at my cards. I could tell he was hoping I'd give up some clue as to what card I had left in my hand. I knew what he was thinking. Finally he said, "I know you have Guardian." I just sat there expressionless, hoping to God above I didn't tip anything off. He began to flick the corner of his placed Nova Burst with his index finger repeatedly. At this point I realized how helpless I really was here. I was the one in the hot seat not him. I had to be the one to keep my composure and be patient. This is where Mike was a master. It could be his turn, but he would make you feel so pressured you'd often tip off what it was you were hiding.
Finally, he picked up the Nova Burst. He started to play it towards my Banshee, which would have knocked him out and won him the venture and the game. I ever so slightly shifted my hand toward him as if to play my Guardian. He immediately leaned back and exhaled a loooong breath. He grinned from ear to ear as he replaced his Nova Burst back on Torch. He confidently said, "Pass."

I beamed as I slowly played my Super Scream on Torch knocking him out and clinching the game. He turned in pain and agony, cursing my name and all my rotten luck. Man I have never felt more satisfied than out bluffing the master bluffer that game.

Now, why did he do what he did? He knew he could maybe slam me with Nova Burst, but he figured on carrying Nova Burst to the next battle where the same two would still be ventured rather than have it Guardianed this battle. I had tricked him into thinking I had the Guardian Angel and not my Super Scream.

Stuff like this makes me remember the good old days of staying up late at a friends house and just playing each other nonstop all night with some chips and cokes.

[CoS]

I need to find people who will stay up late with Chips & Coke and play non-stop

However, I do remember when Mission Control first came out and virtually everyone had access to the otherwise hard to find Anyheros that the "did you play your Guardian Angle yet" question was often asked. I also remember people getting a little hot about other people touching their dead pile... Those were the days!

[Hot Rod]

I'll post some of my own when I have more time later, but here is an excerpt from Jon Land of the West Coast Empire

 
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Stryfe's Stryke Fyles:
He had 5 missions completed with 2 in reserve. I had 3 missions in reserve with 4 in my loss pile. The only advantage I had was I had knocked out 2 of his guys, Iceman and Surfer. I had my team intact but with a lot of hits. Finally I got my good hand. He ventured 2 for the game so I ventured 2 as well. We played it out. He ko'd Cyke, I got his Banshee, at the end I had one card left in my hand to his Nova Burst placed on Torch. It was his turn to play and the venture was tied.

He sat there for the longest time just staring at my cards. I could tell he was hoping I'd give up some clue as to what card I had left in my hand. I knew what he was thinking. Finally he said, "I know you have Guardian." I just sat there expressionless, hoping to God above I didn't tip anything off. He began to flick the corner of his placed Nova Burst with his index finger repeatedly. At this point I realized how helpless I really was here. I was the one in the hot seat not him. I had to be the one to keep my composure and be patient. This is where Mike was a master. It could be his turn, but he would make you feel so pressured you'd often tip off what it was you were hiding.
Finally, he picked up the Nova Burst. He started to play it towards my Banshee, which would have knocked him out and won him the venture and the game. I ever so slightly shifted my hand toward him as if to play my Guardian. He immediately leaned back and exhaled a loooong breath. He grinned from ear to ear as he replaced his Nova Burst back on Torch. He confidently said, "Pass."

I beamed as I slowly played my Super Scream on Torch knocking him out and clinching the game. He turned in pain and agony, cursing my name and all my rotten luck. Man I have never felt more satisfied than out bluffing the master bluffer that game.

Now, why did he do what he did? He knew he could maybe slam me with Nova Burst, but he figured on carrying Nova Burst to the next battle where the same two would still be ventured rather than have it Guardianed this battle. I had tricked him into thinking I had the Guardian Angel and not my Super Scream.

Stuff like this makes me remember the good old days of staying up late at a friends house and just playing each other nonstop all night with some chips and cokes.

This was without a doubt the golden age of Overpower.  Before the advent of battlesites virtually all characters with a 9-11 attack were playable( Even Superman was playable!).  The Guardian Angel/Web Head meta was a blast to play in, you were always on your toes waiting to see if he'd draw Web Head the turn aftrer you Guardian'd his 9-11.

Battlesites really did a number on the game, taking it from superhero-esque battles with big attacks to this never ending stream of defense.
Devourer helped a bit, but it was too little too late.  Even with Devourer, Tyler Bertrand's 1-9 deck with Onslaughts Citadel was an absolute bear to play against.

[Onslaught]

I think battlesites were a pretty clever way of making people feel like their older non-intellect character cards weren't completely worthless. Within a few more sets, there probably could have been a little more tweaking done to find the proper balance between Any Heroes and Battlesites. Right now, it's probably slightly in the favor of battlesites, but arguably the best deck in the game bases half of it's strategy around using Any Heroes so it's a bit of a wash. I'm almost positive the next Any Hero (in DC3) would have been an AI, so I think that woulda balanced things out nicely.

That being said, yeah the "anything bigger than an 8 is unblockable because nobody plays negates" format was major fun. You couldn't really stop the big OPD's unless you used personal avoids (blah) or had Guardian. Also before Leech came out, you were allowed to Webhead for Guardian, so bluffing that was always fun too.

Now that I think about it, I really think all the different formats were fun, even the "broken ones." The shift era made a ton of characters unusuable, but it also made a bunch of previously useless people become quite powerful. The current metagame is also nicely balanced. For the aforementioned "level 11 OPDs are so good!" format, I kinda liked how all three icons were playable at the same time. Not only that, but each one had room for variation so even mirror matches could have some subtle nuances to them.

Strength: Hulk, Thing, some combination of Namor/Juggernaut/Morbius/Blob
Fighting: Wolverine, Sabretooth, Black Cat, then your choice of like Nightcrawer
Energy: Banshee, Ice Man, Human Torch, etc.

So you have Strength being the most consistent of the bunch (and the ability to run three 8 stat characters), Fighting which hoses strength (AoA missions, unblockable 3e, discard all strength icon OPD), and then Energy which has no 8 stat characters but can KO people in the blink of an eye. Fighting had the advantage vs. Strength, Energy had the advantage vs. Fighting (Banshee "discard all Fighting Icon" OPD), and strength was just all around solid. Even with those advantages in certain matchups, they were still all relatively balanced and fun.

Not a ton of diversity, especially when compared to the sophisticated builds of "modern" OP decks, but it was still great fun.

[Hot Rod]

I also think the game would have become more balanced.  The addition of the Hulk NN and the New Warriors EY in the Marvels set would have helped a ton against 1-9 decks.

[BigBadHarve]

I agree, the battlesites were a good idea, but they certainly changed the dynamic, that's for sure.

DoW was a great step to restoring balance between the two. I've been playing the Power Leech as written, and abolished the 'Leech Target rule' which also makes the difference. If you go that route, Any heroes and Battlesites are now on par with one another. Having played more than a few games this way, we've found that the win/loss ratio between sites and and Anyheroes tends to be about equal. The leech almost always connects now, which makes a huge difference.

Battlesites give you amazing versatility, but with DoW and a leech that can only be negated, Any heroes have a lot of power.

-BBH

[drdeath25]

LoL @ Playing Power Leech 'as written' to help balance the game.

Do you play webhead 'as written' also? that would help balance any heroes to be more playable also.

[CoS]

playing the BQ's across the board "as written" would go a long way in making those heroes top contenders. I agree with playing most of the cards as written, however it does make the FF-Plaza deck nigh invicable   but hey, the team does not have a negate  so you have them there ;-)

[Hot Rod]

I'm not sure I agree with pre eratta leech either.  I couldn't even imagine the old leech + being able to BQ any heroes.  With the Fatal Attractions event set and any heroes it would become impossible to play an energy deck with a battlesite.  Getting luck sacked like that reminds me too much of Yu-Gi-Oh.

[BigBadHarve]

LoL @ Playing Power Leech 'as written' to help balance the game.

Do you play webhead 'as written' also? that would help balance any heroes to be more playable also.

Actually, yes. We play all cards as written, with only a dozen or so errata. It opens up the game. New Universe/Fortress of Solitude is played without restriction - go ahead bet 7 and play the card. If I negate it, you are screwed. It's a tactic that can backfire. Web Head says ANY card, so you may choose ANY card.

The goal was to eliminate the meta rules entirely, because they are contradictory and a total pain the in ass. Do you know how many players I tried to get into the game but got fed up with all the little rules and errata that contradicted what was printed on the cards? Players should need only look up a standard instruction book, or the cards themselves to determine how something should be played, and that is all. Unfortunately, a small list of errata is necessary or the game is broken, but our list is on a single page and is easily referenced.

Incidentally -  Our rule for FF Plaza is that you can only shift if you're blocking with a power card of 4 or less. That pretty much ties both of the printed inherent abilities together, it's still a strong inherent but not so overly powerful that it sets FF apart from any other Homebase.

I'm not sure I agree with pre eratta leech either.  I couldn't even imagine the old leech + being able to BQ any heroes.  With the Fatal Attractions event set and any heroes it would become impossible to play an energy deck with a battlesite.  Getting luck sacked like that reminds me too much of Yu-Gi-Oh.

Remember, back before the Leech was changed, there were only two or three characters who actually had a negate. There were no battlesites, and no any hero negate. Now there are many ways to stop the Leech. We've been using this system for a couple of years now, and it works. I have yet to come up with a broken deck, there is always a counter.

You've read my list of core rule adjustments... if you can make a broken team, please do! I have yet to see a team that cannot be countered by one strategy or another.

BTW Hot Rod - remember we were talking about those selection cards, like Caliban, or Gift of the Gods? I liked your etiquette of showing the opponent the drawn card - as you said there's too much room for abuse - so we added another tweak to our rules - If you are allowed to select a 'specific card type' from the draw or the dead pile, then you must show your opponent the chosen card. If no specific card type is mentioned, then you needn't show the card.


-BBH