BQ Specials - Were they really too strong?

[a_noble_kaz]

So I was playing my brother with a fun crossover villains team of Dr Octopus, Joker, Two-Face, and Kingpin(R) (you know, two madmen and two crimebosses, I love themes!). At one point late in the battle I attempted to use Two-Face's BQ to grab a Joker special, and my brother reminded me of meta-rule #71:

When a Special allows a Character to select a card from the Dead Pile and the Special is Character specific (i.e., not an Any Hero/Character) and the Special does not indicate whether or not the card must be usable, then the card drawn from the Dead Pile must be usable by the Character playing the Special.

Okay, now I don't want to start some meta-rule bashing here (although that certainly has its uses), but I honestly don't understand why they restricted this card, specifically because it only applies to 3 characters! Now let's take a quick look at them.

• Wonder Woman

              So, she is a dual-grid 8 with a teammate avoid, good. Offensively, however, she has what could possibly be the worst OPD attack in LOP.

• Scarlet Spider

              Like Wonder Woman, he is a dual-grid with a teammate avoid. And again like her, is severely limited in offense with his AA and BV.

• Two-Face

              Like the others, Two-Face is a dual-grid, but also a max6. He has a BV like SSpider, but no teammate avoid. You could argue that he has the best offense, however, with his 6e AP (and even better offense with a homemade card a friend gave him, more on that later).

So none of these Characters are exactly top-tier, Venture-dominating frontline-wrecking badasses. However, they all have an ostensibly fantastic BQ that, in my opinion, significantly ups the ante of offensive and venture potential. So the meta-rule must have something to do with abuse, right? I mean, are these cards even more powerful than I realize? Is there a potential for abuse substantive enough to warrant such capricious limitation? Who of you, who have played for years or in tournaments, can provide an example of this card being so strong as to require rule #71?

My brother agrees with the rule, and one of the reasons has to do with the nature of the character as well as the diction of the card. In other words, Marauders can play a teammate's special because it fits their nature, whereas Two-Face may exchange a card for a card playable by him because it fits his.

And to segue (my English instructors would be proud), the word card on the special as well as the phrase must be playable seems to indicate that as long as those two criteria are met, any such card may be exchanged. I'm talking, of course, about teamworks! Therein lay the  compromise between the three characters with rule-restricted BQs and those with diction-restricted BQs. In other words, Marauders can exchange for any of their three teammate's specials, and only specials, while Two-Face can only exchange for his specials but also any card playable by him.

Some final thoughts:

• Is it legal to use BQs (character-specific or Any Character) to exchange for Teamworks, Allies, Double Shots?
• If so, is it a good enough compromise?
• Do you ignore meta-rule 71 when you play?

Thanks guys!

PS

My brother's friend is working on an expansion of sorts for DC (he's our resident Batman/Superman expert) and he came up with a fantastic card for Two-Face: Acts as a level 4e/s attack, must be blocked twice. If successful, acts as a level 8e/s hit.[/list]

[BigBadHarve]

Yes, I agree that those BQ cards royally got the shaft. For my house rules - I play them as written. They say ANY card in the dead pile, therefore it may be ANY card. Zero Restrictions. It gives three characters a nice boost.

Officially, of course, that is not the case. No any-heroes, activators, or any special not usable by said character.

However, it IS legal to draw anything else (teamworks, doubleshots, artifacts etc) that is usable by the character, so long as any additional requirements can be met. (IE: for a TW you must be able to follow it up with a PC, same with doubleshots)

-BBH

[Jesse]

I would definitely agree with BBH that they got the short end on this meta. I recently built a team with SS and a team with WW but after reading the Meta I feel a little different about one of the two teams now.....

[steve2275]

but what about that?

[Jesse]

but what about that?

I stand corrected. 

I love the ones that specifically say "not playable by"

[steve2275]

its good for my cap taskmaster deck

[Jesse]

its good for my cap taskmaster deck

I always forget about Taskmaster.....b/c I don't have him   

[gameplan.exe]

but what about that?

That's just it. there are two-types of BQ Specials. Those that are restricted to playable by the character, and those restricted to non-playable by the character. They could both be better, but as it is, I feel like the differences between these two creates a bit of balance anyway.

[Jesse]

That's just it. there are two-types of BQ Specials. Those that are restricted to playable by the character, and those restricted to non-playable by the character. They could both be better, but as it is, I feel like the differences between these two creates a bit of balance anyway.

this is true - Steve2275 and I just had a back and forth on that this morning. As much as OP could have improved I do think they did a really good job with what they had out there - especially compared to some other comics' games.

[steve2275]

can a bq special be used to retrieve a special after it was used from a battlesite?

[Demacus]

Do you discard battlesite specials to the Dead Pile after they are no long in play?

[steve2275]

Do you discard battlesite specials to the Dead Pile after they are no long in play?

arg
stupid me

[Jack]

Officially, spent battlesite specials go into the defeated characters pile, activators go into the dead pile.

Activator cards cannot be placed. Specials from the battlesite are put into the defeated characters pile after they are used and activators are put into the dead pile. If a battlesite is KO'd, then it too would be placed into the defeated characters pile.

The question relating to BQ is answered above, which is no. The specials are not in the dead pile so it cannot come back.

[The Dude]

Yea, I'm on the play them as written side of the fence. Any card should mean any card. I also fail to see why they can't be played defensively if you have an avoid in the Dead Pile.

Wonder Woman in particular gets royally screwed under official rules. She only has five specials, one is the BQ itself so we're down to four. Two are defensive so you can't choose them. That leaves a pair of OPDs that are retrievable. That the only two specials she can get are OPD is another negative since there's a good chance you could get the BQ before the other two come up; but then on top of it they are not even good OPDS as those specials include Amazon Might, which I would never play in a tournament setting (or even most casual ones for that matter) and Lasso of Truth, which I'm only tempted to include in casual play because it's her signature comic power--but regardless a reveal special certainly isn't worth getting twice.

So she starts with an as written Special that is one of the best effects in the game with tons of flexibility and by the time the rule whittles it down she has a card that in ideal circumastances is going to give her one additional teamwork, which I would say is far from being "blessed by the gods" of overpower.

[BigBadHarve]

Yea, I'm on the play them as written side of the fence. Any card should mean any card. I also fail to see why they can't be played defensively if you have an avoid in the Dead Pile.

Wonder Woman in particular gets royally screwed under official rules. She only has five specials, one is the BQ itself so we're down to four. Two are defensive so you can't choose them. That leaves a pair of OPDs that are retrievable. That the only two specials she can get are OPD is another negative since there's a good chance you could get the BQ before the other two come up; but then on top of it they are not even good OPDS as those specials include Amazon Might, which I would never play in a tournament setting (or even most casual ones for that matter) and Lasso of Truth, which I'm only tempted to include in casual play because it's her signature comic power--but regardless a reveal special certainly isn't worth getting twice.

So she starts with an as written Special that is one of the best effects in the game with tons of flexibility and by the time the rule whittles it down she has a card that in ideal circumastances is going to give her one additional teamwork, which I would say is far from being "blessed by the gods" of overpower.

I disagree about Amazon Might - it's most certainly a worthy card. In the very least, it's not useless at all. But that's not the debate here...

I tend to agree with the play as written side of things... though I do lean in favour on disallowing the retrieval of Any Heroes and Activators. Primarily because it might be a little too broken. Especially in retrieving the big ones, like DoW or Leech. Immensely frustrating for players.

But there is no reason at all that said BQ cards shouldn't be able to retrieve anything else. You can retrieve aspects, that's not barred - not that there would be many options for Wonder Woman. A-next or Excelsior is about it. But calling teammates specials shouldn't be out of the question. Hell Marauders can already do it, and they were broken long ago. It would go a long way to Giving Wonder Woman, Scarlet Spider, and Two-Face a much more playable special.

It's funny how the Marauder's BQ which by virtue of it's text is technically 'limited' offers more options than Wonder Woman's BQ which has an excessive limitation not indicated by the text.

-BBH