DoW and KL

[gameplan.exe]

I suspect the answer, but I thought I should ask for some feedback, just to be sure.

If some one plays Devourer Of Worlds on my battlesite, and that battlesite has a KL special on it, (say from C.Britain on MUIR ISLAND), I'm prevented from using that KL to remove DoW, right?

[Jack]

Yes. You also can't play the KL to defend against DoW. You can negate it when it is first being played on your defensive action.

[Dog]

You can negate it when it is first being played on your defensive action.

Really?  Despite the card text?

Play during battle. Opponent cannot use Activator cards for remainder of game or until this Special has been attacked with 4 Activator card attacks. This Special may not be negated.

Additionally, what constitutes "attacking" the special with Activator cards?  Do the specials have to be attacks, or is this basically saying you have to reveal and waste 4 Activator cards (of any kind) before you can start using them again?

[BigBadHarve]

You can negate it when it is first being played on your defensive action.

Really?  Despite the card text?

Play during battle. Opponent cannot use Activator cards for remainder of game or until this Special has been attacked with 4 Activator card attacks. This Special may not be negated.

Additionally, what constitutes "attacking" the special with Activator cards?  Do the specials have to be attacks, or is this basically saying you have to reveal and waste 4 Activator cards (of any kind) before you can start using them again?

Jack was referring to the KL special. You can't play it defensively to stop DoW, and the player playing DoW can negate it to prevent it you from wiping out Dow.

And yes, you actually attack DoW with activator cards. One at a time. Once you've hit it 4 times, then DoW is gone.

-BBH

[Jack]

[notsure]That is the only time you can negate it. The special is still being played and hasn't officially gone into affect yet. The "This Special may not be negated." hasn't come into play yet.[/notsure]

KLs can't be used defensively to remove DoW, but can be used afterwards. KLs cannot be from battlesite since DoW prevents you from exchanging for any.

BBH - I thought we could negate DoW on the defensive action...

Attacking the special means playing 4 Activator cards onto it. You do not exchange them with the specials from the battlesite. You play the Hero cards directly onto DoW. Those cannot be defended by the opponent anyway because they are not specials, they are activators.

[drdeath25]

That is the only time you can negate it. The special is still being played and hasn't officially gone into affect yet. The "This Special may not be negated." hasn't come into play yet.

Do Not Agree.

[BigBadHarve]

That is the only time you can negate it. The special is still being played and hasn't officially gone into affect yet. The "This Special may not be negated." hasn't come into play yet.

Do Not Agree.

Agree with Dr. Death's disagreement.

DoW may not be negated. Period. Once the card has been played, the stipulation becomes active.

It's the same with JW specials, which cannot be defended with specials. One can't argue that they CAN be defended with specials because the card hasn't landed therefore the stipulation doesn't apply.

Bearing in mind, of course, there are some cards with conditional modifiers - 'If successful....'  those effects don't come into play unless successful (or unsuccessful in some cases). DoW doesn't say - "If successful this card may not be negated."  It simply says "This card may not be negated."

And yes, a KL from the battlesite is useless against DoW because you must exchange the activator for it, but you're prevented from playing activators by DoW.

-BBH

[Hot Rod]

Negating DoW before it activates is an interesting view point I've never heard.  I can see how that would work after playing Yugioh for years with that kind of logic.  Though, it's a slippery slope of timing and chains once you go down it.

If this was Yugioh and DoW was a speed 1 with a negate being a speed 2, then it would work, because the negate goes before the DoW, due to chains rolling back from the last card played on the chain.

BBH is right here though about the "if successful," if the card had that, then it would be negatable.

[Jack]

Ah nuts, there goes my argument. I hate all DoW decks.

[BigBadHarve]

Ah nuts, there goes my argument. I hate all DoW decks.

It certainly does provide a good argument for GL and KL cards... doesn't it? 

-BBH

[gameplan.exe]

Okay, so to be clear:

1. KL cards cannot be played from a Battlesite to defeat DoW (as I suspected, and against my hopes)

2. DoW cannot be negated (as I suspected, and against my hopes)

Correct?
(I'll refrain from asking "right?" because it is not "right", even if it is "correct") 

[drdeath25]

correct.

[breadmaster]

so KLs can take out DoW?  i assumed that it only affected cards that implicitly stated 'remainder of battle or remainder of game'...otherwise, why did they go to the trouble of including the quotation marks?

can y'all remind me what GL cards do? (and a couple characters that have em)

[gameplan.exe]

DoW says,
"Play during battle. Opponent cannot use Activator cards for remainder
            of game or until this Special has been attacked with 4 Activator
            card attacks. This Special may not be negated."

So, yeah, KL removes it.

GL cards let your sort through opponent's Draw Pile and remove a card. Doomsday, Huntress, Post and  Reavers are the only characters with it.

[breadmaster]

oh yeah...duh