"Unbeatable Decks"

[CCTelander]

A quick question that maybe some of the OP Fanatics around these parts can help me with.

Up to the errata on Vertigo, and the "Dead Is Dead" Rule, Shift Decks were often considered to be almost unbeatable by anything other than another Shift Deck.

After that and the release of X-Men OP, the "best" decks were considered to be heavily defensive decks built around characters like Spawn, Xaos, Spider-Girl, etc.

I'm just wondering if anyone out there remembers any SPECIFC decks, of this defensive variety, that actually did perform so well that they were considered to be nearly unbeatable. If so, could you provide me with a couple of examples?

Also, anyone have any examples of Card Advantage Decks from that time that were also considered just "too good"?

Thanks in advance for any help you guys can provide.

[CCTelander]

A quick question that maybe some of the OP Fanatics around these parts can help me with.

Up to the errata on Vertigo, and the "Dead Is Dead" Rule, Shift Decks were often considered to be almost unbeatable by anything other than another Shift Deck.

After that and the release of X-Men OP, the "best" decks were considered to be heavily defensive decks built around characters like Spawn, Xaos, Spider-Girl, etc.

I'm just wondering if anyone out there remembers any SPECIFC decks, of this defensive variety, that actually did perform so well that they were considered to be nearly unbeatable. If so, could you provide me with a couple of examples?

Also, anyone have any examples of Card Advantage Decks from that time that were also considered just "too good"?

Thanks in advance for any help you guys can provide.

I suppose I should add that when I say the "best" or "unbeatable" decks, I really do mena the most heinously abusive decks that were come up with. Just to clarify.

[Palatinus]

I'm surprised this topic never got any responses.  It would be interesting to hear from people who used to play in the tournaments about what decks were really killer and/or abusive and probably annoying to play against.  For those of us without the experience these decks would actually be a fresh new challenge.

[metaphist]

Good bump. When I got back into OP I googled about decks, and the handful of results seemed ancient, so I always wondered if/how things changed. I did get the impression that negates, teammate avoids and shifts seemed like gold, so it makes sense that defensive decks used to be considered the best. I'm still putting the finishing touches on what I consider a damn fine assault deck, but everyone in my circle is new and no one has a top tier defensive deck, so I've been wondering how picked apart I might get vs one. I'll have to get on OPOnline with some of you guys soon...

At any rate, vets please chime in

[BigBadHarve]

There are certainly plenty of tough decks, but no deck is truly unbeatable.

The major assault decks of yore relied heavily on vertigo so absorb the hits, rather than block them. Without vertigo they were screwed, as the majority of their defense was power card or battlesite based.

It's still not a bad tactic, just make sure you're going first if your defense is low, and don't be afraid to trade characters when necessary. 

Defensive decks are also a pain, but again, no deck is unbeatable. There's always some way to breach the armour of a team of characters who all have avoids. Plenty of attacks is one way to do it. All of this is really where skill comes in too - knowing which hits to take and where to attack. Learning to assess an opponent's team and possible hand. You can't let the deck do all the work for you. That simply comes with time and practice.

-BBH

[gameplan.exe]

There are certainly plenty of tough decks, but no deck is truly unbeatable.

The major assault decks of yore relied heavily on vertigo so absorb the hits, rather than block them. Without vertigo they were screwed, as the majority of their defense was power card or battlesite based.

It's still not a bad tactic, just make sure you're going first if your defense is low, and don't be afraid to trade characters when necessary. 

Defensive decks are also a pain, but again, no deck is unbeatable. There's always some way to breach the armour of a team of characters who all have avoids. Plenty of attacks is one way to do it. All of this is really where skill comes in too - knowing which hits to take and where to attack. Learning to assess an opponent's team and possible hand. You can't let the deck do all the work for you. That simply comes with time and practice.

-BBH

knowing is half the battle (G.I. JOE! - I have to finish that in my head  ). Learning all the Specials for as many characters as possible can give you a very real advantage in the game, particularly with OPD cards. Knowing which juicy cards your opponent may still have left (or that they've already discarded) can be game winning information. This is also one of the reasons I wanted to find a way to make the AJ-coded specials more playable http://www.beenhereandthere.com/SMF/index.php?topic=119.0

[Palatinus]

It's really very telling about what a great game Overpower is that there really aren't any answers in this thread.  If there aren't any really dominant strategies then the field is wide-open for new ideas and decks and that just makes for a great game.  Not bad for an out-of-print game that had only just begun to become developed when it died.

[metaphist]

It's really very telling about what a great game Overpower is that there really aren't any answers in this thread.  If there aren't any really dominant strategies then the field is wide-open for new ideas and decks and that just makes for a great game.  Not bad for an out-of-print game that had only just begun to become developed when it died.

I agree, and it makes me wish I'd played more while it was active too. As I play alot now and understand more of the nuances, the game gets better and better.

Or maybe there's no answers because no one wants to reveal their killer deck

[Palatinus]

I actually thought of that too!  Very very sneaky . . .

[Hot Rod]

I honestly don't think there is an unbeatable deck.  I'm not even sure if there's a deck that can do better than a 70% win rate.  Due to the game mechanic of giving your opponent an increasing amount of cards the more you venture at a time, the game tends to balance out.  Also being able to concede before battle helps get around killer events like Entrohpy Field and SRTW.

I've got an easy to pull off 2 card combo worth a ridiculous amount of cards/venture, but with this combo and most other combos they tend to die to negates, and giving your opponent too many cards via venture.

The best decks will be decks that actually have a win condition (kinda like an out pitch in baseball) ontop of being able to win a straight up game.

[Palatinus]

What kind of tricks and win conditions are there?  I hear people talking about a bet 7 win, but I don't know when that works.

[gameplan.exe]

What kind of tricks and win conditions are there?  I hear people talking about a bet 7 win, but I don't know when that works.

Here's a bet-7 scenario...

Let's suppose I'm playing against an Any Hero deck, and I've already seen my Opponent's Bastion and Guardian, and I've killed his other Negator(s)... I'm using Gambit and Outer Space for a Battlesite...

I draw a hand with Gambit's CHARM and Activators for Shi'Ar and Adam Warlock (to get their AF and FD Specials, respectively).

If I can target some one with no straight avoids, say, Starjammers, then I can Bet-7 (or as much as I possibly can). Because I know he cannot block the FD, which will limit it to just Gambit vs. Starjammers, then I can play CHARM on his first attack, then I can play the AF to put me up 3 points on Venture and win the hand.

This one is pretty circumstantial, as it would require you to be in a place where you knew that the FD, AF, and BJ were all unblockable/un-negatable, but it would still work.

There were other bet-7 strategies, around which you could build a whole deck, but this was the general idea. Creating the "perfect storm" of a hand.

[Onslaught]

Onslaught/Nightcrawler/Scarlet Witch/Puppet Master with Danger Room was the "good" bet 7 deck. 10 copies of Merciless Conqueror, 10 Trick Transport, as many Gambit and Beast activators as possible, and a couple Puppet Master +3 to venture for good measure. Trick Transport the first person who is attacked, Merciless Conqueror someone (ideally Scarlet Witch but it's not mandatory), Charm on the last attackable character. Backup from Acrobatics in case they have a first turn negate.

With the errata to DZ, the other "draw a negate first turn or you probably lose" deck is some combination of Charm style characters like: Donald Pierce, Poison Ivy, Post, etc. with Avengers Mansion and AoA missions. Max out on Thor activators to try Viking Pyre first turn, remove your entire deck except the event to return all defeated missions to reserve and your "can't be attacked" OPDs. You can run another person with a Charm style OPD in reserve if you want insurance against the KO event, but Callisto is better to stock up on Caliban's to ensure you find Thor first turn.

This is a dumb deck though, both casually and competitively. In a theoretical tournament there is no way you could consistently win with this deck, and against your friends every game will be decided on the first turn with an essential coinflip situation.

[BigBadHarve]

With the errata to DZ, the other "draw a negate first turn or you probably lose" deck is some combination of Charm style characters like: Donald Pierce, Poison Ivy, Post, etc. with Avengers Mansion and AoA missions. Max out on Thor activators to try Viking Pyre first turn, remove your entire deck except the event to return all defeated missions to reserve and your "can't be attacked" OPDs. You can run another person with a Charm style OPD in reserve if you want insurance against the KO event, but Callisto is better to stock up on Caliban's to ensure you find Thor first turn.

I've found that Age of Apocalypse as a Homebase and Avenger's Mansion site is a good option for the block off/ bet for the win scenario. The team is generally decent enough to hold it's own if the trick fails.

-BBH

[Palatinus]

It sort of reminds me of that three move check mate in chess.  It's neat the first time, but then it's just annoying and boring after.