'EB' cards

[BigBadHarve]

I completely forgot about that shift ruling; then the above team combo is very difficult to pull off.
The disabling of the inherent was suggested without the shift ruling in mind, but with it I agree with you that doing so would make aquaman/brood more unplayable.

Sad to see the KC (non-OPD) got dragged in that as well, I guess the duration=depends has no meaning beside referring to that fact that the special's effect can end before the battle has ended, instead of meaning an unknown length of time.

However, BR special is listed as duration=game, interesting to see that they were trying to fix something they broke. Going by this, I view the KC special's duration=depends as something that last an unknown length of time.

It has become very clear to me that the meta (non-opd=battle, opd=game; etc.) was ruled in because they wanted to fix a certain card. It was easier and faster to generalize the ruling to affect all playable cards than it was to go through each one. It might have broke some cards, but it resolved the initial problem they set out to solve. Furthermore, given how they were competing with mtg and others, they needed a quick fix in order to maintain the player-base, little did they know, doing so ultimately lead to their downfall. [These are my thoughts of what happened, if someone working on OP at that time is reading this, please share your story.]

bamf!

Which is why I prefer to play without the meta rules. The game officials at the time had a bad habit of making rulings to limit a certain strategy rather than broaden the # of strategies available. It became about limiting cards rather than expanding options. The more varied the options, the harder it becomes to rely on any given strategy.

FREEDOM!!! 

-BBH

[The Dude]

The game officials at the time had a bad habit of making rulings to limit a certain strategy rather than broaden the # of strategies available.

.

Sadly i think this statement completely sums up the attitude of the-power-that-were for much of Overpower's official life.

BTW - I love your example of the BR specials, I wonder if the powers-that-were were ever presented with that example of the obvious of fallacy of the meta-rule in question.

Anyway on this topic I say to everyone that there is absolutely no reason in the world not to play EB and KC specials as written. The meta-rules had their uses at times, but primarily they existed so that people knew what to expect in tournament play and tournaments had to comply with them to recieve prize support from the power-that-were. Seeing as those powers ceased to exist over a decade ago, and thus even in the highly unlikely event there were some sort of public overpower tournament again there would certainly be no prize support from said powers; there is thus no reason on the planet to stick with short-sighted rulings that make less cards playable for characters who were never broken to begin with. Play the text on the cards as written, you'll be a lot happier.

[BigBadHarve]

Anyway on this topic I say to everyone that there is absolutely no reason in the world not to play EB and KC specials as written. The meta-rules had their uses at times, but primarily they existed so that people knew what to expect in tournament play and tournaments had to comply with them to recieve prize support from the power-that-were. Seeing as those powers ceased to exist over a decade ago, and thus even in the highly unlikely event there were some sort of public overpower tournament again there would certainly be no prize support from said powers; there is thus no reason on the planet to stick with short-sighted rulings that make less cards playable for characters who were never broken to begin with. Play the text on the cards as written, you'll be a lot happier.

Oh, I do. But that's in my own circles. When playing new people, who aren't familiar or appreciative of one's house rules, it's best to go with official rules.

I think everyone on this board has their own set of house rules. It's interesting seeing what people have come up with to make the game more fun for themselves.

-BBH

[Nostalgic]

The only ones that come to mind are Brood, Aquaman, and Darkseid. I used to think EBs were better than old-fashioned "Avoid 1 attack"s because once you played them they no longer counted as a placed a card. Now it seems "Avoid 1 attack"s have the clear advantage because even though they have to be placed (depending on how risky you want to get), you're guaranteed they'll at least do something for you. Contrarily, you could be saving an EB forever and then once you decide to play it, your opponent could simply attack someone else for the remainder of that battle, meaning you totally wasted not just a card but one card per battle as long as the EB was placed for absolutely no positive effect. I suppose they're still useful as a desperation maneuver for keeping needed characters alive, but their effect as far as negating your opponent's attacks seems almost null since all your opponent has to do is wait for the next battle to resume attacking that character and the EB will be gone. Maybe one under a battle-site would be better so it'd be there just in case you need it and for anyone, but it's hard to see myself ever using so much as one in my decks after this discussion.

Silver Sable has one as well. Multiple Man and Taskmaster have one that specifically states remainder of battle but that also lets you shift or take the hit as necessary. (Not all that useful either, depending on the circumstance.)

Concrete Jungle is a worthy battlesite, so I would consider putting Sable's EB into that site, but as for putting them in a deck, not likely.

Of course, there's nothing stopping you from adjusting all this in a house rule, if you don't mind straying from the official rules. God knows I do.

-BBH

If you count the Marvels set, multiple man got a second EB "Take the hit" which could be used to defend anyone on the team from an attack with a power card for remainder of game.  Captain Britain also got an EB that defended the team from a special card for remainder of game. Since these aren't OPDs I made a pretty good team using multiple man with several of those cards which really created a wall of defense that was hard to break for my opponent during a critical battle.

[The Dude]

Those Marvels' EBs are tremendous. Captain Britain in particular is a really strong character now. Of course if these Marvels heroes can have teamwide non-opd EBS (albeit limited to 1 type of avoid) with a choice of when to use it, it just adds fuel to the no reason in the universe Aquaman/Brood can't have single hero EBs that block the first hit thrown at them without a choice also last the entire game.

[BigBadHarve]

Yeah, the Marvel's EB cards rock. All of them. And for the record, I have always lobbied that the original EB coded cards be played for remainder of game (and in fact did play them that way until someone informed me that I was mistaken).

-BBH

[gameplan.exe]

1) I think the EBs were intended to remain until they were actually attacked. Otherwise, there is no reason for Aquaman and Brood to have the IAs they do. I also think, like most that posted here, that it can't really be exploited, but it makes a few characters more useful.
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2) As for the KC argument, I disagree with the lines of thinking that have been posted. I think the KC only lasts a single battle (even Grunge's) because I think that's defined within the card text.
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"...until <character> is K.O.'d or cannot be attacked."
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I think that means at the end of the battle, the KC-character cannot be attacked anymore (since you have no more cards to play) and the card is therefore discarded. Thoughts?

[BigBadHarve]

2) As for the KC argument, I disagree with the lines of thinking that have been posted. I think the KC only lasts a single battle (even Grunge's) because I think that's defined within the card text.
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"...until <character> is K.O.'d or cannot be attacked."
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I think that means at the end of the battle, the KC-character cannot be attacked anymore (since you have no more cards to play) and the card is therefore discarded. Thoughts?

It's a fair argument, but the official rule was to go with the duration meta rule. OPD = remainder of game, non-OPD = remainder of battle.

That's why under official rules Grunge's Danger Seeker is a remainder of Game special, while Mole Man and Leader got the shaft. (Because, you know, Grunge's inherent ability is SO shitty, they needed to boost him somehow! )

How a card that states '...until <specific event occurs>' is not counted as a duration boggles the mind... but that's another debate. 

-BBH

[gameplan.exe]

(Because, you know, Grunge's inherent ability is SO shitty, they needed to boost him somehow! )

-BBH

Speaking of which, I've heard of a "Dead is Dead" rule that if a person has enough hits to qualify for both Cumulative and Spectrum K.O., they die regardless of Inherent Ability. I haven't found this in the Meta Rules, though. Do you know if this was enforced in tournaments?

[BigBadHarve]

Speaking of which, I've heard of a "Dead is Dead" rule that if a person has enough hits to qualify for both Cumulative and Spectrum K.O., they die regardless of Inherent Ability. I haven't found this in the Meta Rules, though. Do you know if this was enforced in tournaments?
[/quote]

Yes, that's also an official rule.

-BBH

[Palatinus]

Speaking of EB cards, does the hit used to remove the card count toward venture?

[gameplan.exe]

Speaking of EB cards, does the hit used to remove the card count toward venture?

No, that's what keeps the shields useful. The hit does not count for Venture. The only shield-type card that can take a hit that will count for Venture is the Krakoa ASPECT card, but that card specifies that the hit will count toward Venture:

Attack made on any of Krakoa's Front Line Characters is now made on
            Krakoa. Krakoa may not defend or be KO'd. Hit counts toward Venture
            Total.

[Palatinus]

That makes sense.  Is there any specific rule that spells that out though?  Like, does it say that only hits on heroes count towards venture?  I don't remember if the part about hits on battlesites don't count for venture is just stated in rules for battlesites or if it gives a general ruling there.

[BigBadHarve]

That makes sense.  Is there any specific rule that spells that out though?  Like, does it say that only hits on heroes count towards venture?  I don't remember if the part about hits on battlesites don't count for venture is just stated in rules for battlesites or if it gives a general ruling there.

Yes. Meta rule #113 covers it.

The rule about Battlesites is covered in the rulebook. Hits on the site don't count to venture. (Except in specific circumstances)

-BBH

[Nostalgic]

Speaking of EB cards, does the hit used to remove the card count toward venture?

No, that's what keeps the shields useful. The hit does not count for Venture. The only shield-type card that can take a hit that will count for Venture is the Krakoa ASPECT card, but that card specifies that the hit will count toward Venture:

This is true.

What's weird is I was reading the OP online rules about buffer cards under the topic "How do I?" and it said, "Any hits on buffer cards will not appear in front of the selected character (in order to distinguish them from that character's Hits to Current Battle).  Rather, hits on buffer cards will appear above the Mission piles, so that they can be considered in the Venture totals."

I don't know why that was added, perhaps just for krakoa, but something to keep in mind when playing online.