reserve and duplicates

[breadmaster]

suppose i have a card placed to the reserve, and a duplicate of it placed on a front line character.  another character is ko'd.  next battle, when the reserve moves up, does one of the duplicates have to be discarded? 

[Jack]

I would say yes, based off a direct reading of the rules.

If any cards remain Placed on any Front Line Characters from a previous battle, they must be considered part of your Hand for purposes of discarding

Since the Reserve would now be considered a Front Line, and all placed cards are considered In Hand, it would be considered as a dupe.

[breadmaster]

yeah, i felt the same way you did, until i came accross this in the monumental rule book, pg 41

'if a player has one of his front line characters ko'd during a battle his reserve character is moved up to become one of the front line characters at the start of the next battle.'

and in a couple parts in the book (including the back cover sequence of events) they define the battle as the part taking place between the venture, and determining the venture total...thus after events and discarding.

maybe someone who's played in some tournaments has seen this situation come up...

[Jack]

I'm guessing that the series of events is actually referring to "The Fight" as properly labeled as such on Page 24. The Battle encompasses everything from moving of reserve characters up to the front line if applicable, drawing cards, playing Events, discarding dupes/unusables, placing, venturing, conceding, fighting, determining venture, moving mission cards to determining a winner. And I'm sure there might be something I left out.

Battle is probably used in place of Fight in many contexts.

[breadmaster]

suppose i have a power card placed on reserve, and dazzler on the front line ('reserve may defend with power cards' inherent)

if i draw a dupe of the power card, does it have to be discarded?  is the power card on reserve 'useable' even though i can't control who the opponent attacks?

[Jack]

You only keep duplicates if the placed card cannot be used in any situation during the battle.

[steve2275]

team x and sabertooth in reserve
turn one ar is drawn place to sabes in reserve
turn two ar is drawn again
would that be a dupe the second time? even if places on team x?

[Jack]

It's the same as placing a power card on the reserve.

[steve2275]

ill take that as a yes it would be a dupe 

[Demacus]

Didn't we have another thread somewhere that answered this scenario of having a card placed to the reserve and a dupe placed to a front line character?  I seem to remember there being something that states you don't discard placed cards so long as the hero they are placed to is active, in which case, you could have an 8E placed to Magneto in reserve and another placed to Prof X in the front, and when one of the non-Prof X front line characters was KO'd and Magneto moves to the front line, you can keep both of the placed 8E, but any new drawn would be discarded.  I swear there was another thread on the forums that covered this.

[Jack]

ill take that as a yes it would be a dupe 

That would be wrong.

The exception to this rule is the cards Placed to the Reserve Character. Cards Placed to the Reserve Character are not considered part of your Hand for purposes of discarding unless the Reserve Character has the ability to play those Placed cards during the battle (e.g., their Inherent Ability or the Special card allows them to play it from Reserve). Therefore, if the Reserve Character has the ability to play the card Placed to them during a battle, duplicates that are drawn in subsequent hands must still be discarded.

It's not a dupe because the card cannot be played from reserve. If Sabretooth was allowed to play specials from reserve, then yes, it would count as a dupe.

And the discarding duplication phase only compares your hand to itself and placed cards. It does not compares placed cards to itself. So, if, say, X-Babies Maverick were to be KO'd and Team-X already has Sabretooth's AR placed, Sabretooth coming up from reserve (with an AR) would not count as a dupe.

Cards that are placed do count towards duplication however the only cards you ever discard (during the discard phase) are cards from your hand. Therefore, both of the power cards would stay placed but any duplicate of them in your hand would have to be discarded (obviously).

This is the same situation with power cards.

Also:

The "Discard duplicates" phase occurs before the placing phase. Therefore you may not keep any duplicates, even if you intend on placing one to the reserve.

In the battle after a Front Line Character gets KO'd, the Reserve's move to the Front happens before the Draw Phase, and any cards placed to that Character now count toward duplication for the hand drawn.

[steve2275]

thanks jack
and norm barth

[BasiliskFang]

Scenario 1:
Spider-woman in reserve with rescue op placed. next round draw another rescue op. do i need to discard?

im thinking yes.

Scenario 2: Dazzler in frontline. Wolverine in reserve, 8f placed. Next round draw another 8f with Cap America in frontline.

Discard 8f from hand? I think yes.

[Jack]

Correct.

[breadmaster]

scenario 1: yes, discard

scenario 2: I've been told you have to discard.

it's kind of weird.  the reserve only counts as a duplicate is it is usable.  when you're in the discard phase, you have to discard anything that you can't directly make playable.  since you can't control whether the opponent attacks dazzler or not, this falls into a weird zone