x-world aspect/havok question

[breadmaster]

aspect:

'Play during battle to exchange any of X-World's Front Line Characters with KO'd teammate. Discard all Hits to Permanent Record and Placed cards.'

havok's mutant x inherent:

'Team +3 to Venture Total when a teammate is KO'd.'

my question is, is 'exchanging' a living teammate for a ko'd one, KOing the living teammate?

do you get +3 if this teammate is not havok?

[Jesse]

WOW! That is an awesome question. IMO I would count it toward the +3 but I know that is probably in the grey area for a lot of people....but for me it is a yes to +3.

[Jack]

Exchanging a hero would not be a KO.

A KO can only be achieved by cumulative, spectrum, or a card that explicitly states a character is KO.

[breadmaster]

is that a printed rule?

for the record, we counted it as not a ko during the game.  it just seems to me, if you take a character, and stick him in the defeated characters pile, he's ko'd

[Jack]

Well, that's the definition of a KO according to the rule book, minus the part about the explicitly stated card.

You're exchanging a character, so your net loss of characters is 0; whereas with a KO hero event, its loss is 1.

[Jesse]

is that a printed rule?

for the record, we counted it as not a ko during the game.  it just seems to me, if you take a character, and stick him in the defeated characters pile, he's ko'd

Thats how I would take it for home games. Just my opinion.

[Jack]

I may have to retract my answer upon doing a quick look:

Question: I'm using X-World as a Homebase. Havok is dead and Goblyn Queen has Phoenix Connection in play. I draw the aspect and KO' Goblyn Queen to resurrect Havok. Phoenix Connections then puts Goblyn Queen in reserve. Is this legal?

Answer: Yes.

[breadmaster]

that's interesting

i don't agree with it though.  the aspect says exchange, which suggests to me the character should go directly into defeated characters pile.

there's a mojo/riddler card that says something similar

rewrite scipt: May exchange remaining cards in hand with equal number of cards from top of Draw Pile. May keep duplicates. (CP)

i chatted about this with someone once (bbh?).  the card says exchange, so the cards from hand should go onto the top of draw pile.  my understanding is that most people just play it as draw to replace discards from hand though

[Jack]

The wiki confirms the playing of CP:

http://overpower.ca/wiki/CP

Though, for HP (not on wiki yet):

HP (offensive) - Character playing this Special is KO'd and a KO'd hero is returned to the Front Line immediately. Any hits from Current Battle or on Permanent Record of the character playing the Special are now considered Hits in the same locations on the character returned to play. No other cards are returned to play. This Special may only be played on a player's turn. It may not be played during an opponent's turn. This Special does not need to be played during the battle that a character is KO'd

Since Substitute Death has similar text as Parallel Dimension (the Aspect), I think it should be played the same way -- which means a KO for that "target" of Parallel Dimension and a revival of said KO'd character.

[Palatinus]

It sounds like the word exchange on the card is what is in error then.  Exchange would imply that the action is different from a KO and the card should have read something like "KO a hero and then revive a different hero" or something like that.

[Jesse]

It sounds like the word exchange on the card is what is in error then.  Exchange would imply that the action is different from a KO and the card should have read something like "KO a hero and then revive a different hero" or something like that.

It's always hard with a game like this to take out 'personal interpretation' and follow the wording - like me, I would still count it as a KO for home games even with the wording being exchange b/c in my eyes you are killing the guy that was alive with the exchange.

[gameplan.exe]

It certainly seems like a K.O. action to me. Plus, it adds a small strategy to X-World, which is an under-used Homebase.

Here's a related question, then. If the EVENT from Infestation Incident comes up, and Heroes KO'd this battle may continue to fight and are not discarded... does that mean you can't play the Aspect (or Morph's HP), or does it mean that they both come into play until the end of battle, when you discard the Hero who should be exiting the fight?

[Demacus]

I would say you could keep them both until the end of battle, since both effects would then be used to their fullest ability, and not have one simply override the other.

[breadmaster]

weird.  was looking in the guide to specials at CP

it says you can keep unusables...thought that was always a no-no

[thetrooper27]

Maybe if the text on a card reads "may keep duplicates", it also includes unusables?