avoid 1 attack with _____ icon

[breadmaster]

i had an issue with these cards at the meet up on saturday

i argued that the power card follow up should contain all icons included in the teamwork, and was told it didn't

i was thinking about being able to avoid any attack from a battlesite using all icons on the activator, and it didn't add up

then i found this

Meta #86: Power cards that are played as part of a Teamwork attack are still considered to be played as a part of the Teamwork attack (and all icons from the Teamwork card are considered to be a part of the attack). Special cards that are played after playing an Ally card are not considered as part of a Universe card attack. The icons do not join with the Special played.

this would seem to suggest my original feeling was right...thoughts?

[Bios]

You are right about teamwork follow ups. But I guess you can't avoid one attack from a battlesite based in the icons on the activator.

[mattkoz]

I am confused about what is being discussed here. Can you describe an example scenario, please?

[steve2275]

I am confused about what is being discussed here. Can you describe an example scenario, please?

you and me both

[breadmaster]

someone attacks me with a 6s teamwork with bonuses to fighting and intellect

it was said that one couldn't use an AD (avoid one attack with an intellect icon) unless the attack was intellect itself (or a multipower)

the meta suggests that one could use the AD in question to avoid the initial attack, or either power card follow up.

i'm wondering if this is a case of conflicting rules, or whether my original interpretation was correct.

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also, bios:  i've been told that regardless of what special you switch an activator for, it's considered to have all the icons that are present on the activator (can't find the rule right now, but i'll keep looking)

[Jack]

Question: Are the icons on an activator in play? - "Dum Dum Dugan" - Avoid energy draw one. - Do I play this against the Energy Icon on the activator or the special it pulls? AND IF SO can I decide after I see the special (sneaky idea); Quicksilver - Avoid energy no energy against - So can no activators now be played against him? (1997-11-02)

Answer: You can use "Avoid 1 attack made with an Energy icon" to avoid an attack made with an activator. You must wait until the attack is made before doing it though, so you can't avoid it before it comes at you (after all, it may not even be an attack), so you must avoid it after it's been made against you.

As for Quicksilver's AGILE AVENGER card, that card specifically states "NO ENERGY POWER CARDS" may be played against Quicksilver. Although it contains an Energy icon, an activator is NOT an Energy Power card. nice try, though.

From the QNA

[mattkoz]

Understood. This is a case where you want to read the card literally. If there is NAMED icon involved anywhere in the attack, it can be avoided.

[BigBadHarve]

Breadman's asking if it applies to Teamworks, not activators.

I'd mentioned the other day that it doesn't. But I wouldn't be surprised to learn that they had yet another stupid, non-intuitive rule that no one ever played by because it makes no sense.

The idea being this -

I play a teamwork. It has an intellect and energy follow up. I use the intellect option to play an intellect power card against my opponent.

Can you use a card that says "Avoid 1 attack that contains an energy icon" against the intellect power card that's followed from a TW with an energy follow up.

The meta-rule seems to indicate yes, mindbogglingly.

Discuss! 

-BBH

[Demacus]

I'm with you BBH.  Just cause the icon is present on the table doesn't mean it's nessassarily part of the attack.  I would say the same goes for activators, because you never TARGET anyone with the activator as an ATTACK.  You replace the activator, then play the new special as normal.  This is just another case of the meta rules being nonsense.

[Palatinus]

I think that the avoids should work if the icon is anywhere in the attack.  These avoids are crappy enough as it is so they can use the boost.

[Demacus]

In the instances of most attacks, I'd agree, but say you are making a lvl 5I attack with an +4 E/I training universe?  Could you use an AD that avoids an attack with an Energy icon on that?  Should you be able to?  The Intellect attack is the attack itself, and just because you had the option to use Intell OR Energy shouldn't penalize the actual attack.

I know this is a moot point, because the rules already state what can and cannot be done, but if we were to actually sit down and discuss making the rules less contradictory, this is where I would stand on the issue.

[breadmaster]

i actually like the rule

the avoid with ____ icons are a little restrictive, and that opens them up a bit

they progressed massively throughout overpower though

-avoid 1 fighting attack
-avoid 1 attack with a fighting icon
-avoid 1 attack with a fighting icon, draw 1 card

[BasiliskFang]

would be a cool house rule if specific power icon avoids were draw 1 discard dupes.

[thetrooper27]

So is it all about the wording?  Avoid one Fighting attack only specifically avoids an actual fighting attack, even if its an intellect attack from a teamwork with a fighting icon on it.  But if it says avoid one attack with a fighting icon, then it can avoid the intellect attack because of the follow up fighting icon on the card?

And the teamwork itself is still part of the follow up attack, so you could avoid the second attack in the teamwork chain in this case?

And this is the case for activator special card attacks? 

Learning Overpower is like being in school... only way more fun.

[gameplan.exe]

So is it all about the wording?  Avoid one Fighting attack only specifically avoids an actual fighting attack, even if its an intellect attack from a teamwork with a fighting icon on it.  But if it says avoid one attack with a fighting icon, then it can avoid the intellect attack because of the follow up fighting icon on the card?

And the teamwork itself is still part of the follow up attack, so you could avoid the second attack in the teamwork chain in this case?

And this is the case for activator special card attacks? 

Learning Overpower is like being in school... only way more fun.

It is all about the wording. These "avoid 1 attack with a ____ icon" seem to be much more rare. I can only think of a few (of the AD variety) and then there are a few more that came later, allowing a draw after the avoid (LO). I think initially, it was meant to be a sort of "opposite" to the "avoid 1 ___ attack." On the surface, I thought they were less useful, but the more I thought about it, the more I realized they actually cover different ground, not really more or less ground.

Basically, there were icon-specific avoids for people and the way around that was to use "multi" attacks that could be declared. With these "icon" avoids, it's forcing the tactic backwards, toward single-icon attacks.

... it seems to me...