Shifting Question

[Nostalgic]

Question that came up in a game I played recently.

I was playing the Dark Phoenix Saga Mission and the "Hell Fire Club Attacked!" event came up.

Event Text:
"Any attack made on a front line hero may be moved to the reserve hero, who may defend."

My question is if an attack is moved in this way, does the "shift rule" apply?  Does the attack now count as coming from the teammate it was originally targeting, or the enemy character that originally played it?

[Demacus]

There is a Shift Rule that states if an attack is shifted, it is now comming from the teammate the original attack was shifted from?  That's kind of counter-intuitive, don't you think?

I would imagine for the mechanics of the game, the shift allowed from the event would be ruled the same as a shift allowed from an AC special, but that just doesn't make sense that a dodged attack would now be comming from the dodger instead of the attacker.

[Nostalgic]

There is a Shift Rule that states if an attack is shifted, it is now comming from the teammate the original attack was shifted from?  That's kind of counter-intuitive, don't you think?

Yes, unfotunately and yes I agree, but it is what it is...

I would imagine for the mechanics of the game, the shift allowed from the event would be ruled the same as a shift allowed from an AC special, but that just doesn't make sense that a dodged attack would now be comming from the dodger instead of the attacker.

Its one of the reasons an attack can be shifted 'around' a BJ when its being shifted by a teammate to a character with a BJ in play.  Mechanics wise you're probably right. That's the way we played it, but I was hoping maybe someone knew/ heard something different as it relates to the event.

[Demacus]

So, if I use an AC special to shift an incomming lvl 7E Powercard attack to Domino, then, as a defense for Domino, I play Tripwire and a lvl 7F Powercard, does the 7E hit my teammate that shifted the original attack?

What if I used Bishop's AC to shift the attack ONTO him, then trigger a BS (Tripwire) from a battle site for Bishop's defense.  Doed the defended attack still hit the shifter, who would be Bishop, anyways?

Also, if we are to play the cards as written, what's to stop a defender from using the Justice League of America Any Character special from turning the attack back at the attacker?  It does state "Attack made on Front Line Character is now made on any other Front Line Character, who may defend"

I understand that the implication and the special coding of AC indicates that it should shift an attack from a defender onto one of the defender's teammates, but it doesn't explicitly SAY that.  Shifting is interesting...

[Nostalgic]

Good observations and another reason I wanted to get a clear answer to the question. 
We'll see if BBH has any thoughts on this...

[breadmaster]

from jack's site

The Shift Rule: Attacks may only be shifted once. For example, if Character A and Character B both have a CT Special in play, which shifts all attacks to a different front line character, and they target each other, if the opponent attacks Character A, the attack shifts to Character B but does not shift any further than that. Character B may still defend as normal. Cards shifted to a teammate in this manner are now considered coming from the hero shifting the attack, and not the opponent. Attacks shifted to a charcacter ignore pre-set conditions that dictate how a character can be attacked. For example, an attack is shifted to Character A from Character B. Character A can play the BJ Special, which prevents Character A from being attacked, to avoid the attack. If later the same battle, Character B shifts an attack to Chracter A, the attack ignores the BJ Special and must be defended as normal.

it doesn't exactly answer the original question (is moving with the event considered a shift), but it sheds some light on the reasons for the rule

i'd argue that yes, 'moving' counts as a shift, as the other cards that do the same thing don't explicitly use the word 'shift'

[gameplan.exe]

yeah, unfortunately the Event counts as a "shift" and thus, it falls under the Shift Rule. I hate this and it will be my first motion to evaluate in the Rules Committee. It's completely counter intuitive and makes no sense at all in the context of a fight. This was taught to me by BBH on a thread quite awhile ago, when I was talking about using this Event with Strong Guy in Reserve (with his BS-Special). Super-annoyed when he replied, introducing me to the Shift Rule and telling me it also applied to this Event 

[Nostalgic]

yeah, unfortunately the Event counts as a "shift" and thus, it falls under the Shift Rule. I hate this and it will be my first motion to evaluate in the Rules Committee. It's completely counter intuitive and makes no sense at all in the context of a fight. This was taught to me by BBH on a thread quite awhile ago, when I was talking about using this Event with Strong Guy in Reserve (with his BS-Special). Super-annoyed when he replied, introducing me to the Shift Rule and telling me it also applied to this Event 

Well that sucks. So if character A plays a special or uses an Event...  to shift an attack to a teammate (character B) then attack counts as coming from character A. What if Character B plays the special to shift the attack from character A? Does it still count as coming from character A or does it count as coming from the opponent?  (Or is character B attacking himself?  )

[gameplan.exe]

Shift Rule basically makes the original target the new attacker.

Omega Red is attacked and uses Sacrificial Lamb to move it to Wolverine = Omega Red attacked Wolverine.
Omega Red is attacked and Wolverine uses Snikt to move it to himself = Omega Red attacked Wolverine.

This is part of the reason I think you should be able to openly attack yourself. Seems like it shouldn't be both ways 

[Demacus]

Personally, I don't see why shifting an attack should come from the teammate, and we may need to re-examine that one as well.  If Cyclops shoots his eyebeam at Colossus, and it bounces off Colossus's steel skin and hits Magneto, the attack didn't come from Colossus, it came from Cyclops, it just didn't affect Colossus.  (referencing a point in time when Colossus was an Acolyte, not an actual event I read in a comic.)  Just a hypothetical situation for clarification.

[gameplan.exe]

Personally, I don't see why shifting an attack should come from the teammate, and we may need to re-examine that one as well.  If Cyclops shoots his eyebeam at Colossus, and it bounces off Colossus's steel skin and hits Magneto, the attack didn't come from Colossus, it came from Cyclops, it just didn't affect Colossus.  (referencing a point in time when Colossus was an Acolyte, not an actual event I read in a comic.)  Just a hypothetical situation for clarification.

well, if I had to concede one or the other (changing the shift rule or being able to attack a teammate), i'd change the shift rule (at least this effect of it)...

Though i'd still like to attack Bishop... 

[Demacus]

lol  I hear ya, Ncann. 

[steve2275]

lol  I hear ya, Ncann. 

true that

[Nostalgic]

I wanted to ask a question about the game mechanics of a CT special and this seemed to be the most logical place since the topic was on shifting.

Once a CT special is played is it technically a permanent AC special? So each attack goes to character A then shifts to character B due to the special, or do you effectively ignore character A for attack purposes until character B is KO'ed or the special is negated like a permanent BJ special?

[breadmaster]

correct, it is like a permanent shift

so if character B plays 'acrobatics' or 'charm', it will stop the current attack. any future attacks made on character A will be shifted behind the defense, and character B will have to defend each incoming attack again (or let it hit)